The art of Sen
- Thread starter Bemused
- Start date
As its poets day I got home early and found enough bits to stuff a pair of dual rail STRs which are now fitted to the Ballsie Lite.
As Plancks law dictated available space would yet diminish again the Ballsie Lite hangs off of the edge and the new regulators have had to take advantage of more vertically arranged real estate.
Also considering swapping the Ballsie Lites OPA2227 for a pair of LT1022 if I can my stash of Brown Dogs, damned tiny boards to find
Listening right now
You may need something along these lines
I am in the process of finishing a board layout for single ended usage with only one quad per channel.
Is someone interested in having one half of my SEN evaluation kit?
Originally I planed to build a balanced board (for which I already have a layout), but I changed my mind and want to go SE as well. So I can sell 2 of the four matched quads, including PCB and heatsinks.
If anyone interested, PM me.
Once etched, I can also pack a PCB with buffalo footprint on top.
Is someone interested in having one half of my SEN evaluation kit?
Originally I planed to build a balanced board (for which I already have a layout), but I changed my mind and want to go SE as well. So I can sell 2 of the four matched quads, including PCB and heatsinks.
If anyone interested, PM me.
Once etched, I can also pack a PCB with buffalo footprint on top.
Hi guys
Stefan,
Been busy listening, cannot make a choice between single ended or ballanced, each have there merits, right now I perhaps lean towards single ended but are waiting for the Xcen BOM to pop up or a board GB.
The new PC took a lot of time, also knocking the kitchen about with some structural alterations so not a lot of spare time.
Sonority,
Yes an enclose is needed but I wont be moving in that direction until the Buffalo is finalised, its just to expensive re-casing every few months. For now it lives on a plank, its in my room (man cave)which no one enters except by my invitation
cubeasic,
Pleased your getting close.
I may try putting the supply filters in the battery circuit over the next week or so.
Tony
Stefan,
Been busy listening, cannot make a choice between single ended or ballanced, each have there merits, right now I perhaps lean towards single ended but are waiting for the Xcen BOM to pop up or a board GB.
The new PC took a lot of time, also knocking the kitchen about with some structural alterations so not a lot of spare time.
Sonority,
Yes an enclose is needed but I wont be moving in that direction until the Buffalo is finalised, its just to expensive re-casing every few months. For now it lives on a plank, its in my room (man cave)which no one enters except by my invitation
cubeasic,
Pleased your getting close.
I may try putting the supply filters in the battery circuit over the next week or so.
Tony
OK, I was quite busy with work the last two weeks, but I almost finished the SE layout this evening. Unfortunately, it is not yet as pretty as I want it, so it´ll have to wait until tomorrow.
I included space for some Electrolytic caps in parallel to Civ / Riv. So there is room for the SMD/Film/Electrolytic -Combo that Tony proposed earlyer in the thread.
My half evaluation kit is "almost" sold now but there have been some other interested people as well.
Since apparently there won´t be any group buy and matching for the FETs, maybe it would be a good idea for interested people (who want to go SE) to get a full evaluation kit from XEN audio in pairs. So two people can share a kit and save half of the money. The full kit including shipping is something in the area of 112 Euro, which is quite much for a few FETs, miniature heatsinks and two PCBs, especially if you need only half of the parts. But, XEN audio has practically a monopol on the mached FETs and also the heatsinks, and of course it was their idea that they generously provide to the diy-community, so about 56 euro for the half kit is an "ok" price.
I included space for some Electrolytic caps in parallel to Civ / Riv. So there is room for the SMD/Film/Electrolytic -Combo that Tony proposed earlyer in the thread.
My half evaluation kit is "almost" sold now but there have been some other interested people as well.
Since apparently there won´t be any group buy and matching for the FETs, maybe it would be a good idea for interested people (who want to go SE) to get a full evaluation kit from XEN audio in pairs. So two people can share a kit and save half of the money. The full kit including shipping is something in the area of 112 Euro, which is quite much for a few FETs, miniature heatsinks and two PCBs, especially if you need only half of the parts. But, XEN audio has practically a monopol on the mached FETs and also the heatsinks, and of course it was their idea that they generously provide to the diy-community, so about 56 euro for the half kit is an "ok" price.
MarkW
Full Speed & Pagan
Just to make my findings clear and its only an opinion, I prefer the single ended Sen over the balanced Sen with Ballsie Lite but believe that is only because the Ballsie lite cannot cut the mustard.
I am holding out for the Xcen for which I have high hopes and is close to availability.
Xcen thread is here
Tony
I am holding out for the Xcen for which I have high hopes and is close to availability.
Xcen thread is here
Tony
Hallo,
I uploaded the finished layout into the dropbox folder.
It turned out quite nice, in my opinion. There is only one wire bridge (WL) per channel that has to be made, but otherwise routing paths are quite short and I like how it looks
The SEN evaluation kit is only the PCB, FETs and heatsinks - for a fully balanced setup. You would still need all passive parts, resistors and caps, but they are quite cheap compared to the evaluation kit.
I put a picture of my kit (which I got from XEN audio before shipping - a great service) also into my dropbox folder: link
It´s good that there is not much of a downside with the SEN using only half of the buffalo´s output. Plus: Using it only SE practically halves the overall costs for IV/stage and powersupply.
Edit:
It seems there was someone on diyaudio already faster:
diyaudio
Apparently, there are some differences in the implementation, but overall it looks very good.
I uploaded the finished layout into the dropbox folder.
It turned out quite nice, in my opinion. There is only one wire bridge (WL) per channel that has to be made, but otherwise routing paths are quite short and I like how it looks
So is the XEN kit a fully balanced set up? Cos that's what I will need
The SEN evaluation kit is only the PCB, FETs and heatsinks - for a fully balanced setup. You would still need all passive parts, resistors and caps, but they are quite cheap compared to the evaluation kit.
I put a picture of my kit (which I got from XEN audio before shipping - a great service) also into my dropbox folder: link
It´s good that there is not much of a downside with the SEN using only half of the buffalo´s output. Plus: Using it only SE practically halves the overall costs for IV/stage and powersupply.
Edit:
It seems there was someone on diyaudio already faster:
diyaudio
Apparently, there are some differences in the implementation, but overall it looks very good.
MarkW
Full Speed & Pagan
Hallo,
I uploaded the finished layout into the dropbox folder.
It turned out quite nice, in my opinion. There is only one wire bridge (WL) per channel that has to be made, but otherwise routing paths are quite short and I like how it looks
The SEN evaluation kit is only the PCB, FETs and heatsinks - for a fully balanced setup. You would still need all passive parts, resistors and caps, but they are quite cheap compared to the evaluation kit.
I put a picture of my kit (which I got from XEN audio before shipping - a great service) also into my dropbox folder: link
It´s good that there is not much of a downside with the SEN using only half of the buffalo´s output. Plus: Using it only SE practically halves the overall costs for IV/stage and powersupply.
Edit:
It seems there was someone on diyaudio already faster:
diyaudio
Apparently, there are some differences in the implementation, but overall it looks very good.
Excellent, thanks.
I read over it, but not very carefully. I guess the main problem seems to be EMI from the clock? Or was there something else?
I already cut some alumimum-plates to use between the buffalo and the Legato/Sen which still need to get the holes drilled. This should take care of the clock-EMI issue with the SENs floating supply. But I will also install it over the Legato, because it is not a big deal to make.
I etched and drilled the single ended PCBs at the weekend. They look good.
Unfortunately, I don´t have much spare time at the moment so I hope to fit the parts untill next weekend...
I already cut some alumimum-plates to use between the buffalo and the Legato/Sen which still need to get the holes drilled. This should take care of the clock-EMI issue with the SENs floating supply. But I will also install it over the Legato, because it is not a big deal to make.
I etched and drilled the single ended PCBs at the weekend. They look good.
Unfortunately, I don´t have much spare time at the moment so I hope to fit the parts untill next weekend...
The placement on the side has the effect to minimize the electromagnetic pollution from clock or converter, hasn´t it? An electromagnetic shield between Bufallo and the SEN main-area should do the same trick.
At the moment I am using a 15mm standoff and a little spacer, giving a total of 16mm standoff space. I designed the PCB so that - in theory (I will see how that works out) - there are no parts over 10 mm height below the buffalo area, so that I can use a 10mm standoff, 1mm aluminium and another 5 mm standoff below the buffalo. On part is bigger, (C101, the bigger cap for the AVCC voltage divider), but it can be installed sideways and I don´t even know if it really is necessary. Of course, I can also install longer legs and use 15+1+5 mm standoffs.
I remembered, that one guy from twistedpear once said that they found it very important to use short current paths to the I/V board (->stacking). Of course, this can also be done by wiring the SEN boards right next to the buffalo.
Yes there are conflicting ideals depending on which stale you turn to, TPA or Zen.
I know from my day job that twisted pair current loops are extremely robust and 4-20mA can be pushed thousands of meters with no problem whatsoever.
Perhaps not enough Buffalo / Sen users to make a definitive judgment yet.
Your board is well thought out and should be fine, in any case its adaptable.
I know from my day job that twisted pair current loops are extremely robust and 4-20mA can be pushed thousands of meters with no problem whatsoever.
Perhaps not enough Buffalo / Sen users to make a definitive judgment yet.
Your board is well thought out and should be fine, in any case its adaptable.
Just going over old ground again with the battery filter, probably going to etch a pair out over the next week or so.
Back to single ended from the Buffalo again, this is my preference over balanced with the TPA Ballsie Lite which defeated me in gaining a batter sound.
I have just returned your board back to stock Tony but would like to keep old of it a while longer as having prated around de-modifying I just had one of those moments when I think maybe my clever start earth arrangement for the analog supplies is not so clever after all, so it needs modifying again perhaps....
Duh
Back to single ended from the Buffalo again, this is my preference over balanced with the TPA Ballsie Lite which defeated me in gaining a batter sound.
I have just returned your board back to stock Tony but would like to keep old of it a while longer as having prated around de-modifying I just had one of those moments when I think maybe my clever start earth arrangement for the analog supplies is not so clever after all, so it needs modifying again perhaps....
Duh
Populated most of the PCB now.
The FETs were quite easy to solder, because there are only two per heatsink.
Here are some pictures:
http://imageshack.us/a/img31/1444/imag0018cr.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img822/6489/imag0020ro.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img152/3329/imag0022u.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img201/4132/imag0024b.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img259/7347/imag0033y.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img829/4035/imag0025u.jpg
Things with the Alumnium shield did not go as expected.
First, the Screw terminals were over 10mm (didn´t think about that) and secondly, the 0.22µF Cap for Vref decoupling was also taller...
I´ll have to work around it...
The FETs were quite easy to solder, because there are only two per heatsink.
Here are some pictures:
http://imageshack.us/a/img31/1444/imag0018cr.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img822/6489/imag0020ro.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img152/3329/imag0022u.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img201/4132/imag0024b.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img259/7347/imag0033y.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img829/4035/imag0025u.jpg
Things with the Alumnium shield did not go as expected.
First, the Screw terminals were over 10mm (didn´t think about that) and secondly, the 0.22µF Cap for Vref decoupling was also taller...
I´ll have to work around it...