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The art of Sen

Discussion in 'd.i.y.' started by Bemused, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. Bemused

    Bemused What's this all about then?

    This thread is in no way endorsed by Patrick and Xen-audio.
    I need to point out that we are just a bunch of amateurs lucky enough to be able to have a stab at the Sen in a very DIY and amateur manner.
    Readers should in no way associate our amateur efforts with the professional products of Patrick and Xen-audio.

    That is not to say there are not some professional members amongst our group, no offence intended.

    OK guys, looks like there is some interest in SEN implementation for our buffalos as an upgrade for the Legato 3.1
    This is going to be quite a subject on its own so I thought to start a new and bring it out of Suffolk Tony’s huge Buffalo thread.

    If you’re in agreement then I will trawl the big Buffalo thread and an start by posting the relevant links to DIYA and Xen etc.

    Not sure of my direction yet but I am leaning towards DIY boards either strip or in my case etched.

    I think in a group buy on boards is out of the question for obvious reasons but a GB for Jfets seems entirely logical.
    Thanks to Needsp and NicMac for generating the interest.

    Below is a kind pm from Patrick of Xen-audio regarding the situation with our playing around with his products.

  2. orangeart

    orangeart KJF Audio Ltd.

    Great Tony,

    As I said in the other thread, if someone designs a layout we can all etch from (or get some boards made up) I'll happily run the GB for the parts we all need. I really like Florians idea of the board being the same footprint as the legato with the same connection method, makes life a bit easier when swapping stuff around.

    How does this thermal compensation work? We could include that in the GB.

  3. orangeart

    orangeart KJF Audio Ltd.

    As you mentioned in the other thread we should definitely ask permission before proceeding with our own board design. Sounds like a goer though :)

  4. Bemused

    Bemused What's this all about then?

    Stefan, be great if you did a GB for the Jfets, most kind offer.
    I have no problem with doing a layout for others to etch subject to Patricks approval and it would of course fit the Buffalo-III
    I understand the thermal compensation is just a matter of locking all the Jfets together as one thermal mass, in the Xen case I think they use some hot wire cut EDMP rubber but my thoughts would be to create a small cylindrical mould out of some household item and pour in some slow setting goop once the Jfets are on the board.
    No idea of the actual goop yet, maybe polyester resin? (fiberglass) car filler?



    Xen-audio do not use rubber heatsinks see post 15
  5. Bemused

    Bemused What's this all about then?

    Some links.

    The originator and the guy we need to thank for Sen are Patrick
    His site is here

    The linearaudio bookzine article is here

    His DIYA thread is here

    The integration and Vref drawings are in DIYA post 606
    The charger is in post 612
  6. Suffolk Tony

    Suffolk Tony pfm Member

    Great stuff! a good idea to split this from the old Buffalo thread, it's getting very unwieldy.

    I'm of course very interested, please count me in! Hopefully I'll get my head round it as the thread develops; at the moment I'm wondering about dual-mono. going from single Buffalo was a very significant improvement, so if you could implement SEN with dual-mono won't that sound better than the single Buff too?

    I guess what applies to the MkIII Buffalo will also be the same for the Mk II?
  7. Bemused

    Bemused What's this all about then?

    Yes I think we are all having a hard time.
    I think for starters we with dual mono will have to loose half our converters, but we still get to keep our dual mono architecture. We can play at adding in more converters once we are up and running with something a little more basic.
    I think Buffalo-II and Buffalo-III will work in together, although I don’t have a Buffalo-II.
  8. Bemused

    Bemused What's this all about then?

    Thanks Jo
  9. Bemused

    Bemused What's this all about then?

    I sent a pm to Patrick asking for his approval

  10. MarkW

    MarkW Best Sounds Ever


    Be good if this comes off. Whilst my Legato 3.n is delivering very satisfying results, I'd be interested in trying the SEN approach.

    Don't have much time to get involved at present, but will keep an eye on developments and try to find some time to skim over the original threads on DIYA.

  11. Bemused

    Bemused What's this all about then?

    Pleased to have you over seeing Mark
  12. Bemused

    Bemused What's this all about then?

    Could not help myself and had a little sketch. ;)
    Its small about 3"x2"
    Its just one half of one channel (I think!)
    Capacitor is dimensioned for the Xen BOM (Nichicon ES)
    Jfets not quite right as I did not have the eagle part for 2SK369V but they are TO92 and I checked the pinout.
    Resistors probably over size but I don't know what we are using yet.
    All terminals are on terminal headers 5.08mm pitch. Its just a starter idea.

    We need
    The header dimensions for the Buffalo
    Routing optimisation.
    Ground plane.
    The other half...

  13. orangeart

    orangeart KJF Audio Ltd.

    The legato boars layout on the TP site should help with the header positions. Quick work!

    Just listening to Bob Marley via legato, hard to imagine it could sound any better really!

  14. cutting42

    cutting42 Heading to Fish Hacker Erg \o/

    OK Tony, I am curious now!
  15. Bemused

    Bemused What's this all about then?

    Unfortunatly I made some cockups already and they could infringe on the good name of Patrick and Xen

    I said
    Actualy they are made out of solid aluminium by CNC wire cut.
    They are then matt black anodised for maximum radiiation efficiency.
    The JFETs are then glued to the sink using a siver loaded epoxy, like Arctic Silver adhesive.

    You can find the origin of those sinks here :


  16. Bemused

    Bemused What's this all about then?

    About time too, good to have you back :D
  17. Bemused

    Bemused What's this all about then?

    Good news is Patrick will investigate into a complete XEN Audio 9018 solution.

    Thats our Buffalo :)
  18. orangeart

    orangeart KJF Audio Ltd.

    Sounds good.

    Re the heat sinks could they just be mounted on the same strip of copper like the PH regs?

  19. Bemused

    Bemused What's this all about then?

    How do we mount a T092 device to copper?

    Ideally they need to be closely spaced in a box format.
  20. cubeasic

    cubeasic pfm Member


    I have to say, this is developing very fast.
    Here are the dimensions for the legato with stand-offs: link

    Didn´t find anything about the via-connectors yet.

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