The cars are too heavy, still can't follow easily and DRS does make for more overtaking so why not expand its underlying principle further. It also gives the option to (if they wish) vary the amount of movement by car so could introduce a bias system (e.g. cars qualifying lower on the grid get more benefit of the movable aero). Remember F1 is now as much a show as a sport... I don't like it, but I'm an old stick in the mud and the sport needs to attract young fans so maybe I'm no longer a target 'customer'.
The 2024 Formula One Season
- Thread starter cutting42
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Enfield boy
pfm Member
Jim Hall, you saw it here first unless you're really old.I know and who do you think will be really really good at designing movable aerodynamic devices?
gez
pfm Member
Age has a lot more to do with speed of post op recovery than level of athletic fitness. Of course if someone is out of shape etc they'll take longer to recover, but super fit people don't recover any more quickly than people who are above average fitness etc. Unless physio recovery is part of the process. I'm specifically talking about the healing of wounds etc. So if your son is a teen or early 20's he's far more likely to recover quicker from surgery than Sainz who's now 29 years old.
Of course there are other factors, such as Sainz is far more likely to return to his job before he's fully recovered because of money and contract etc than an average person on the street who's far more likely to delay return for as long as they can push it.
gez
pfm Member
I dislike DRS on principle. But maybe that's because I don't see overtaking as the single factor that determines my enjoyment of motor racing. In fact if anything I am of the complete oposite opinion. I'd rather see a race with a lot of battles between drivers with no overtaking at all than one where there are 100 totally unchallenged overtakes. For me the latter is just boring.
gez
pfm Member
I'd remove DRS and tyre changes as well. Overall pace of the race is of zero interest to me. I'd far prefer to see drivers being challenged by low traction towards the end of the race and having to fend off someone who's tyres are in better shape.
If that results in long tedious races, then simply shorten the races. F1 races are ridiculously and unecessarily long anyway.
gez
pfm Member
I don't need evidence. Just the knowlege that the vast majority of people on this world don't enjoy their job. You only need to actually talk to people or read articles on the subject to know that. This isn't a science department I don't have to live by your petty rules of "proof", it's just a forum.
clivem2
pfm Member
Our son was 28 when he had his op so just about the age of Sainz. He was lectured by the surgeon to really be careful as once the initial soreness subsided he’ll feel fine but his insides need time to heal so no using his home gym for 6 weeks. Sainz will have medics assess him, maybe he’ll be ok to drive after 4 weeks but just as with Danny Ric last year no one can predict reliably. I’d be very surprised if the Oz GP is viable for Sainz.
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
It didn’t the last time it was used.
Pole sitter sets off in front, the rest trail behind in performance-order, controlling tyre use. Remember, only one tyre manufacturer, and it’s probable that they’d all be on the same tyre.
Any driver who tries to overtake will be extremely worried about whether they’ll have any rubber left with laps remaining.
While the cars have wings, the issue will persist. The BTCC until the mid-90s was brilliant. And then Alfa turned up with some aero bits and suddenly nose to tail but ten metres back was the order of the day. No overtaking.
Want variables?
I’d start with manual gearboxes. Proper ones. Nurse that baby around the track, game boy. No more millisecond gear changes, and plenty of potential for mistakes.
Let the teams/engine manufacturers use different engine configurations. There’s a budget cap anyway, so let them go for it.
Allow testing, as much as the teams want. Before and during the season. There’s a budget cap anyway, so let them go for it.
gez
pfm Member
Shorten the races, significantly. That'll let them run engines closer to their limits, bring back an element of actual reliablity jeopardy. One set of tyres. Arguments that that'll just make it a procession are because nothing else in the race format was changed, if it's a long race of course everyone is just going to manage their tyres from the very start. Tyres need to be developed so they don't advantage those who just drive 9/10ths to make the tyre last, because doing so will leave you so far behind you have no chance of winning against the person who drove at 10/10ths of the tyres performance until the performance of the tyre dropped off. There's got to be a wear profile possible that'll achieve that.
MotoGP works, and not just because it's motorbikes and it's easier for them to overtake. The races are shorter, so it's effectively a sprint to the finish. F1 needs to move significantly in that direction. I'm not at all convinced that the heavy use of aero is helping the sport (to start with it arguably means they're not even cars in the real sense of the word). I really don't want to be watching racing that effectively boils down to who has the best aero and which drivers are the most like fighter pilots, it's not the kind of skill I want applauded in a driver.
As I said, I'd be much happier watching a shorter race run at lower speeds (because of lack of aero) where the vehicles are all about mechanical grip, where the drivers skill is more about race craft and balancing grip on the edge of adhesion.
MotoGP works, and not just because it's motorbikes and it's easier for them to overtake. The races are shorter, so it's effectively a sprint to the finish. F1 needs to move significantly in that direction. I'm not at all convinced that the heavy use of aero is helping the sport (to start with it arguably means they're not even cars in the real sense of the word). I really don't want to be watching racing that effectively boils down to who has the best aero and which drivers are the most like fighter pilots, it's not the kind of skill I want applauded in a driver.
As I said, I'd be much happier watching a shorter race run at lower speeds (because of lack of aero) where the vehicles are all about mechanical grip, where the drivers skill is more about race craft and balancing grip on the edge of adhesion.
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
While we’re at it, shorten Le Mans to 45 minutes?
I suppose if (in the absence of one dominant team with a dominant driver) you’re not into strategy and tactics, rallycross length races might appeal.
I’m not trying to change F1. I’ve just walked away from it. And after two race weekends I feel better for it.
I suppose if (in the absence of one dominant team with a dominant driver) you’re not into strategy and tactics, rallycross length races might appeal.
I’m not trying to change F1. I’ve just walked away from it. And after two race weekends I feel better for it.
gez
pfm Member
Don't be silly. The point of Le Mans is that it's a 24 hour race. F1's duration/length is just an arbitary thing that has nothing to do with anything except that somebody once decided that's how long the races should be. Presumably to try and test the reliablity of the cars. Given that in the modern era failures are basically pretty rare (certainly compared to back in the 50s-80s), then the long race distance/duration no longer serves any purpose. IMO a 60 minute race is more than long enough, rather than the circa 80-100 minutes we have now.
But, yes one part of F1 that I've never liked (and have often thought should be gotten rid of) is pit stops and strategy. It's a car race, not Age of Empires/Civilisation.
But, yes one part of F1 that I've never liked (and have often thought should be gotten rid of) is pit stops and strategy. It's a car race, not Age of Empires/Civilisation.
There's plenty of things that could be done, but shortening races is not a good idea IMO. The races are a nice length now and open up the scope for different race approaches to play out.
In my opinion shifting away from aero grip to mechanical grip would be a good idea. The cars could quite easily be downforce limited and the limits could be enforced by measurement during the race. Widen the tyre choices and stop mandatory use of two compounds... that way one team might choose to run 4 stints on soft whereas another might go for two stints on medium/hard (remember Schumacher at France 1998 ... although this was fuel optimised too) . Loosen the rules a little around the design parameters of the cars dimensionally and allow in season testing albeit this must be within the budget. Right now the lack of being able to test properly makes catching up with a front runner very difficult. Engines... 50/50 on this one... as long as the move towards environmentally friendly power plants continues I think there could be some leeway here too.
In my opinion shifting away from aero grip to mechanical grip would be a good idea. The cars could quite easily be downforce limited and the limits could be enforced by measurement during the race. Widen the tyre choices and stop mandatory use of two compounds... that way one team might choose to run 4 stints on soft whereas another might go for two stints on medium/hard (remember Schumacher at France 1998 ... although this was fuel optimised too) . Loosen the rules a little around the design parameters of the cars dimensionally and allow in season testing albeit this must be within the budget. Right now the lack of being able to test properly makes catching up with a front runner very difficult. Engines... 50/50 on this one... as long as the move towards environmentally friendly power plants continues I think there could be some leeway here too.
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
Well just don’t watch it!
It really is that simple. It’s so far from what I want, that I’ve given up trying to enjoy it. And they’re not going to change. 90 minutes of advertising boards parading around a track is what it’s all about.
One hour? The engines still won’t break, even with 2000 horsepower.
It really is that simple. It’s so far from what I want, that I’ve given up trying to enjoy it. And they’re not going to change. 90 minutes of advertising boards parading around a track is what it’s all about.
One hour? The engines still won’t break, even with 2000 horsepower.
Bananahead
pfm Member
Doesn't F1 feature shorter races at some circuits? And don't a lot of people complain about that.
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
Yep. Interesting for about a lap, then nothing. So on that basis, should F1 be shortened to a series of single lap races?
Hang on… Nordschleife, one lap… in the rain.
Nah, they'd run it behind the safety car