Tannoy Monitor Golds

[Tony L]

How about the decoupling mountings used by KEF and other on some of their drive units. I wonder is this would make a difference.

I suppose in the LS3/5a there is a bit of decoupling of the B110 from the baffle by the PVC U shaped gasket.

Tannoys up to the first version of the HPD were all designed for rear-mounting to the baffle, so the front of the driver basket has quite a thick felt or foam rubber gasket depending on model. When fitting a pair of Golds that have sat out of the cabs for a while the foam gasket reverts to being a good few mm thick and they actually take some time to bolt down again, i.e. they already have this type of arrangement.

 

[Radfordman]

My HPD 315s, early models, in Devon cabinets are front mounted, there seems to be nothing between the back of the chassis and the baffle.

My Golds and Silvers were all back mounted as you say.

 

[Tony L]

As I recall the HPD crossed the cabinet changes from Chatsworths, Lancasters, Yorks etc to Chevoits, Berkleys, Ardens etc so ended up both front and rear mounted. I've never actually removed a driver from a later period Tannoy cab, I just assumed they used a gasket of some kind?

PS I've finally figured out how to select and copy a Flickr URL on iOS9 so here's a pic of some Golds that show the gasket:

 

[John]

My HPD 315s, early models, in Devon cabinets are front mounted, there seems to be nothing between the back of the chassis and the baffle.

My Golds and Silvers were all back mounted as you say.

As I recall the HPD crossed the cabinet changes from Chatsworths, Lancasters, Yorks etc to Chevoits, Berkleys, Ardens etc so ended up both front and rear mounted. I've never actually removed a driver from a later period Tannoy cab, I just assumed they used a gasket of some kind?

PS I've finally figured out how to select and copy a Flickr URL on iOS9 so here's a pic of some Golds that show the gasket:

Interesting following the evolution of Tannoy cabinets. Here's a picture that shows a HPD driver used in a Devon cabinet. Looks like the seal is still attached to the front of the driver despite being a front mount. Only four screws attaching it to the cabinet though the basket and rear magnet assembly is still similar to the older gold. I wonder if the HPD went through a change to beef up the mount at some point.

 

[cooky1257]

The Arden HPD was mounted from the front(I call that rear mounted!)too onto a sub baffle that meant the front of the chassis was flush with front baffle. I think it was informed by research re dispersion and cavity resonance(from the baffle hole and horn termination interaction).

Blue Arran do rolls of speaker gasket foam about 3x20mm that's great stuff and very effective as a panel gasket too.

 

[Tony L]

Interesting following the evolution of Tannoy cabinets. Here's a picture that shows a HPD driver used in a Devon cabinet. Looks like the seal is still attached to the front of the driver despite being a front mount. Only four screws attaching it to the cabinet though the basket and rear magnet assembly is still similar to the older gold. I wonder if the HPD went through a change to beef up the mount at some point.

If you'd ever picked up a Gold or HPD You'd realise there is very little to beef up, these things are just massive and seriously heavy! The Devon you picture is only a 12", hence less mounting bolts, though Tannoy themselves only tended to use four bolts for the 15" in their own cabs from day one (Lockwood used all eight). The later HPDs and 38xx series were all front mounted and people were starting to use speakers with the grilles off, so I guess they prettied them up a bit with the classic gold coloured kind of rounded-off square four bolt basket front of the SRM, later Ardens etc. The later drivers are a fair bit lighter due to smaller (ferrite rather than alnico) magnets and baffles were getting thicker so I guess four bolts was enough from then on.

 

[John]

The Arden HPD was mounted from the front(I call that rear mounted!)too onto a sub baffle that meant the front of the chassis was flush with front baffle. I think it was informed by research re dispersion and cavity resonance(from the baffle hole and horn termination interaction).

Blue Arran do rolls of speaker gasket foam about 3x20mm that's great stuff and very effective as a panel gasket too.

Looks like the Arden was fitted with a DC386 driver in 1982 which looks quite a bit different to a HPD which was used in earlier Arden's. Maybe an advancement in dispersion performance you refer to.

DC386

 

[Radfordman]

As I recall the HPD crossed the cabinet changes from Chatsworths, Lancasters, Yorks etc to Chevoits, Berkleys, Ardens etc so ended up both front and rear mounted. I've never actually removed a driver from a later period Tannoy cab, I just assumed they used a gasket of some kind?

PS I've finally figured out how to select and copy a Flickr URL on iOS9 so here's a pic of some Golds that show the gasket:

Well, there seems to be nothing between the back of the drive unit chassis and front baffle, no gasket. No trace of an old one either. I think that they were produced like this, but I didn't buy them new.

Here is a similar Devon to mine: https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http://www.hifido.co.jp/photo/12/558/55810/f.jpg&f=1

 

[Tony L]

Well, there seems to be nothing between the back of the drive unit chassis and front baffle, no gasket. No trace of an old one either. I think that they were produced like this, but I didn't buy them new.

Here is a similar Devon to mine: https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http://www.hifido.co.jp/photo/12/558/55810/f.jpg&f=1

Interesting, looks like it was rebated-in too, so must be a fairly thick baffle, i.e. thicker than anything that went before. I don't think Tannoy ever thought too much about sealing cabs, they described Lancasters and Chatsworths as aperiodic IIRC, which is about right IMO - despite not having a port they'd not float for long! Tannoy cabinets are interesting things, clearly an awful lot of thought went into the GRF and Autograph, yet the Chatsworth, Lancaster etc are pretty basic. I guess the earlier drivers (Golds and before) date from the era it was normal/expected for the customer to build their own cabs (lovely brick corner horns etc) whereas as time moved on people just wanted to buy a finished product, so the cheaper boxes probably got rather better.

 

[John]

Interesting, looks like it was rebated-in too, so must be a fairly thick baffle, i.e. thicker than anything that went before. I don't think Tannoy ever thought too much about sealing cabs, they described Lancasters and Chatsworths as aperiodic IIRC, which is about right IMO - despite not having a port they'd not float for long! Tannoy cabinets are interesting things, clearly an awful lot of thought went into the GRF and Autograph, yet the Chatsworth, Lancaster etc are pretty basic. I guess the earlier drivers (Golds and before) date from the era it was normal/expected for the customer to build their own cabs (lovely brick corner horns etc) whereas as time moved on people just wanted to buy a finished product, so the cheaper boxes probably got rather better.

Both of which are front mounted, are we seeing a pattern here? ;-)

 

[Tony L]

Both of which are front mounted, are we seeing a pattern here? ;-)

You could argue the Autograph was kind of both as it is front horn-loaded as well as rear - you've got to pretty much disembowel the thing to get at the driver (link). Also if you think about the construction of the GRF (either corner or rectangular) rear loading would be impossible due to the layout of the internal horn, so no simplistic answers here I'm afraid.

 

[John]

Hence the smilie, but if diffraction and rear bracing is an issue, front mounting is simply the way to go. Love to hear more from Pac1 who seemed to be run off the other thread as he developed a cabinet for housing older Tannoys that might have addresses both issues.

 

[Tony L]

There is a lengthy build thread from Paul over on AoS somewhere, lovely cabs with amazing build quality and his viewpoint will no doubt be what you want to hear as they are a very modern heavily braced ported design I guess similar to your DMTs in some respects. There are however several ways to skin a cat when it comes to Tannoys, you really should try and get a listen to a few of different vintages as they all have their charm, i.e. what you have read to be "issues" are features of some of the most sought-after and valuable Tannoys on the planet.

 

[cooky1257]

I've seen Yorks with a thumping great vertical wooden strip bisecting the driver cut out too.
In the horn designs the front loading/rear mounting is obviously impossible to mount the driver any other way-the front horn loading and the corresponding effect on the horn dispersion I'd bet are cunningly designed to compliment each other in terms of overlapping/matched polar plots at xover.

I'd never suggest mangling some great old Lockwood cabs in order to gain an marginal improvement in a particular area when they are doing everything right in many others not to mention the possibility that these minor 'imperfections' are part of what constitutes that particular and authentic vintage sound

I have mentioned before the change that Arundel tuning the York box(28hz) and rebating the Gold driver flush made a significant improvement.Not too dissimilar to this..http://www.44bx.com/tannoy/york.html.

 

[Tony L]

I've seen Yorks with a thumping great vertical wooden strip bisecting the driver cut out too.

Yes I have too, in fact I toyed with buying a pair that had turned up at either BigEars or Emporium in that period I was Tannoyless after miskakenly selling the first pair. I couldn't work out what the strip was for, maybe an attempt to diffuse/scatter the HF and make it less beamy? Very odd anyway. It would have been interesting to hear them.

 

[Radfordman]

Interesting, looks like it was rebated-in too, so must be a fairly thick baffle, i.e. thicker than anything that went before. I don't think Tannoy ever thought too much about sealing cabs, they described Lancasters and Chatsworths as aperiodic IIRC, which is about right IMO - despite not having a port they'd not float for long! Tannoy cabinets are interesting things, clearly an awful lot of thought went into the GRF and Autograph, yet the Chatsworth, Lancaster etc are pretty basic. I guess the earlier drivers (Golds and before) date from the era it was normal/expected for the customer to build their own cabs (lovely brick corner horns etc) whereas as time moved on people just wanted to buy a finished product, so the cheaper boxes probably got rather better.

Strange thing is that my vintage corner Chatsworth enclosures are quite well sealed, but my friend has normal Chatsworths, and as you say: "I don't think Tannoy ever thought too much about sealing cabs"

 

[ToTo Man]

How much of an improvement would these be on my Lancasters, and how would they stack up against the Lockwoods? I know it's apples and oranges, but that's why I'm asking! ;-)

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=191702896089

 

[Tony L]

How much of an improvement would these be on my Lancasters, and how would they stack up against the Lockwoods? I know it's apples and oranges, but that's why I'm asking! ;-)

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=191702896089

Whatever they are they are not GRFs as they are not back-horn loaded! They look more like a variation on an Arden or SRM. I'd be interested to know more about the port math as it should be different between the classic hard edge driver cabs (Lancs, Yorks etc) and the foam edge HPD cabs (Berkley, Arden etc). They look nice for £550 though it has to be said.

PS If you want to try some Yorks you are welcome to my old ones for free if you come and collect them. They are very accurate measurement and construction wise, they could just do with sanding down and a nice veneer.

 

[Joe P]

Yup, those are most definitely not GRFs.

Joe

 

[cooky1257]

Absolutely no idea what they are. Anything over 300L is a complete waste of time, one measure has them around 380L.. the port looks to be slanted downwards(maybe yo accommodate it's length, low note baffle, whats that?