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Supatrac: the world's best tonearm?

Interesting.
I met Richard briefly at the Bristol Hifi Show before it opened to the public on the Friday morning. We had a few moments before the crowds descended and we listened to a brand new recording (test pressing) in his room (his brand new Rega TT's and Blackbird arm, not sure of cartridge) and in the room I was helping in (Technics 1200G and Ortofon 2M Bronze). Was one better than the other, I hate using the word "better", I prefer different and they were different.
I'd have liked to try the arm on the Technics, now that would have been interesting......
Thank you - I really enjoyed coming to listen in your room. I'm a Technics turntable fan and it was also a pleasure listening to Lyn and meeting her. A musician who is out in the open about caring about the end of the recording/reproduction chain shouldn't be a rarity, but it's very nice to see.
 
I think the most interesting aspect of this whole A-B is the difference in opinion depending upon which side of the Atlantic you’re from.
 
Imported the files into audacity for easy swapping while listening and then also noted the recording C waveform look be a bit louder than D.
A RMS measurement confirmed. C is in average around 1db louder.
On first listening C is brighter and livelier but louder. I planned to import into Audacity to check so thanks for saving the hassle - though I probably will anyway and try to match the levels. I wonder if it is purely a level difference or whether there is a peak/average difference.
 
So far on PFM we have 8 votes for “C” and 4 votes for “D”.

Tracking Angle voting is 4 for “C” and 5 for “D”.

It would be interesting to have a control group recording with the same cartridge on a stock Naia.
 
So this is both on the same deck? Same Atlas cartridge? Same tonearm cable?

Swap-over time alone rules out any meaningful recent audio memory even if you're in the same room....

That's all assuming that the arm geometry is set spot on, and add to that more importantly cartridge alignment.

Slight errors (above) in favour of either contender would have an impact, no?
 
I preferred C. It was louder, but it seemed snappier, and more "grippy" than D which to my ears sounded a little syrupy and sluggish by comparison (keyword "LITTLE").

That being said, I could care less if the Supatrac is either C or D, if it's hanging with the SAT, it's a freaking miracle of engineering.
 
Who cares
It looks like pretty even the results between c&d and in my view the Supertrac has won by a country mile considering cost difference.
 
Ultimately this arm is going to have to double or treble in cost, if I had a deck, now would be the time to buy one, it cant stay at 3k for even then next 6 months.
 
The arm mass is obviously a factor too.
Yes indeed. This is one reason why it's very difficult to answer when people ask which length to buy. The 12 inch arm has a higher default effective mass - it can never be as light as the 9 inch. The nine inch can be made heavier though. This means that the 9 inch is compatible with a wider range of cartridges. A comparison between the two lengths using the same cartridge would require adding the supplied mass adaptor to the 9 inch arm to bring its effective mass up to the same value as that of the 12 inch. Very few people compare arm lengths in that way, so most discussion of arm length merits is really about something else.
 
Ultimately this arm is going to have to double or treble in cost

Why do you perceive that to be the case? I'm not saying you're wrong - I'm interested in the perception of why it must happen, if it must happen.
 
So this is both on the same deck? Same Atlas cartridge? Same tonearm cable?

Swap-over time alone rules out any meaningful recent audio memory even if you're in the same room...
This is why at the Bristol show I have demonstrated with two decks. In fact, I put the Blackbird on a lesser deck each time, to show that it can beat a handicap. From what I've heard of the SAT arms so far, if I were to do an a/b demonstration against one, I would probably want the Blackbird to be on an identical deck, not a lesser one! Tough competition.
 
Why do you perceive that to be the case? I'm not saying you're wrong - I'm interested in the perception of why it must happen, if it must happen.

Because a. your costs are going to escalate way beyond what you believe. Its entirely plausible right now, labour of love etc you are paying for yourself to goto shows, send out freebies etc, this will only dramatically increase. and b. if this thing is going to be a giant killer it still has to be a decent cost, bargain hunters will snap it up, but after that you have to unhinge the glitterati with 15-20k arms. A measly 3k ain't gonna be it.
 
Because a. your costs are going to escalate way beyond what you believe. Its entirely plausible right now, labour of love etc you are paying for yourself to goto shows, send out freebies etc, this will only dramatically increase. and b. if this thing is going to be a giant killer it still has to be a decent cost, bargain hunters will snap it up, but after that you have to unhinge the glitterati with 15-20k arms. A measly 3k ain't gonna be it.
Thank you. That's a pretty straight answer.
 
I agree with Gary but it would be a shame to leave your PFM base behind, most of whom are not glitterati. Speaking personally, a £3K arm has already left me behind, regardless of its quality. Clearly, it would also be good if you made some money.
 
As manufacturing scales-up I’d actually try and reduce price. If Rega, Hadcock, NAS, Morech etc can produce arms for £1-2k I don’t see why this can’t be made even cheaper. The key selling point is it is exceptionally simple in design; it does not rely on precision engineering at all. It’s a very cleverly positioned spike! The SAT should be viewed as an absurdity. A statement of oligarch vulgarity IMHO. It is clearly beautifully made, but the price is an insult to intelligence. I’d just not want to compete in that market.
 
As manufacturing scales-up I’d actually try and reduce price. If Rega, Hadcock, NAS, Morech etc can produce arms for £1-2k I don’t see why this can’t be made even cheaper. The key selling point is it is exceptionally simple in design; it does not rely on precision engineering at all. It’s a very cleverly positioned spike! The SAT should be viewed as an absurdity. A statement of oligarch vulgarity IMHO. It is clearly beautifully made, but the price is an insult to intelligence IMO. I’d just not want to compete in that market.

This is also fair.
 


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