The notion that things have moved on in hifi is a bit of a red herring. The things don't wear out very quickly because they live indoors, and as you say good engineering is good engineering. I had my Damascene moment in the 90s, I was looking to "step up" and I bought Linn Keilidh speakers, ex demo. They were good fun. Amp died. So new amplifier. Pioneer A400, the reviewers' darling. It's soooo much better! Hmm. Is it? Then I had a burglary and the CD player was replaced, the Rotel 965 that replaced it was marginally better than the old Rotel, and the Marantz 63KI and Denon (reviewers' darlings both) were indistinguishable from each other and *marginally* less nice than the 965. OK. But a new amp is really going to open it up, isn't it? A better amp will be SO much more *revealing*, won't it? Nait 3, Exposure, Linn Intek (yuk!), Audiolab 8000 (wake me up when the record ends, I'll turn it over then). All £750 items, this was nearly a month's salary after stoppages in the 90s. It was 3 months' mortgage, not a trivial sum. Fortunately a mate came by with an old, battered, unserviced Quad 33/303. Well, this old thing is as old as I am, it can't be any good, can it? Bloody hell, yes it can. I trailed it around a few dealers inviting them to find something better. One sneered at me. "Eeuuuh. What are you messing around with that old thing for?" Twat. Because it's better than anything in your shop at under a grand, I should have replied. It was, too. Thereafter I've bought used and well engineered, and it's better. Garrard 401, find me a better modern turntable. Not easy, then look at the pricetag. Various valve amps, developments of circuits from the 50s and 60s. Things have moved on? Hmm. The thing is that people imagine that things have moved on and then rhapsodise about Quad 57s, Tannoy Golds, blueface JBLs, Leak Stereo 20, Krell, Lp12, the list is long. If things had moved on then Tannoy Reds would be as sought after as an Austin Cambridge. Or let's be generous, of collector interest like say an Austin 7. Nobody wants to drive it to work, but a steady run around the countryside in the summer, lovely. But we all know they aren't. A Garrard 401, Leak amp, Tannoy etc system will make 95% of modern hifi this side of eye wateringly expensive sound very ordinary, even some flagship items, and the stuff is 50 years old. How on earth can that be the case? But it is.
Some interesting classic speakers.....
- Thread starter Fitnessed
- Start date
Absolutely.....
Many a good tune played on a olde fiddle!
Shame we are in a throw away upgrade society with a lot of items having a limited life span designed into them....
Bean counting is real......
Paul L
coffee lounge for me
You’re right Steve and I think I first started to take notice when Tony wrote about his re-direction to vintage and classic items. It still comes as a surprise though when we first hear examples such as those you cite and the 66 in my case. It’s also why probably only a Hyperspace would dislodge me from my RP10 albeit maybe with a SUPATRAC rather than one of Tom’s arms. I still might like one on the RP10 of course.
Nothing wrong with Tom's arms. I have a NA Omega Point Silver, which was an earlier version of the Space Arm. Sounds fantastic, my Garrard 401, Omega Arm, Denon DL110 came to a bakeoff with me and rubbed shoulders with a load of exotica, including one with a £5k cartridge, I kid you not. It wasn't shown up by any of it and was scored 2nd overall on a blind recording of the same track.
Agree entirely with Stevec67 above. I'll take a refurbished Quad 33/303 anyday. For me it beats a lot of 'affordable' modern stuff in sound quality, facilities and design. Oh for tone controls and a balance control. Also far easier to service than modern stuff. Speakers wise it's the likes of JR149's, Snell Jii's, and Audiomaster MLS 1's.. Save your money and do the planet a favour........ which I haven't. I do have modern amps and speakers, but they are all in boxes in the loft. One day I'll get around to selling them.
It's partly this and partly the need for manufacturers to keep selling new stuff. The mags were for years in thrall to their advertisers and they had to maintain the myth that this latest amplifier was streets ahead of ANYTHING that had gone before, otherwise it was no more advertising revenue. I still remember the Hifi World schtick in the 90's. Every month, they would give a glowing revew to a CD player you'd never heard of, a £1000 amplifier from Italy and a pair of oddball speakers that were just AMAZING. Next to the review would be full page ads from the manufacturers in question. Next month the items in question would be the subject of free prize draw to WIN THIS AMAZING SYSTEM! Next month, same again. People like me who went straight to Old World to read about Alphasons, Townshend Rocks and Crimson Elektra before browsing the small ads weren't really adding value.
One area where modern stuff does improve on old Quad is on noise levels. The 33-303 was always noisy, especially if it was fed a grubby mains supply. I had an old fridge on the same circuit, every time that that kicked in and out the amp would have a hissy fit. Same with the heating thermostat and hot water pump. Suppressors wired into the fridge plug and hifi connector helped *a bit* but it was very susceptible to any glitches on the mains. I could have had a separate spur wired but this was in a 2 bed starter home and I sold up within 5 years, so it would hardly have been a great investment.
kasperhauser
pfm Member
I'll make space for a pair of Snell Type A speakers, if I ever run across the right ones.
Cupuacu
Militis
Speakers should be aesthetically entertaining to look as well as to listen to - the world has too many boring boxes. You wouldn't stick a bad/ugly painting on the wall and just sit there staring at it because someone else thinks it's good. My latest of many so-called vintage/classic cquisitions - JVC Nivico GB-1s - are from the 1960s, and sound (prettily) nice, and I can easily change the colour with a can of spray paint. If not your cup of tea, then just look elsewhere.
Cartvintner62
Vintage Cartridge Vinyard
Last year I bought a pair of 1965 AR-2ax speakers. Unmolested, never been messed with. In very good condition. I had a friend who raved about his AR-3a speakers. He suggested the 2ax as a less expensive venture; I paid $200 for the pair including shipping them 2,000 miles.
I hooked them up. They sounded terrible. All 3 drivers worked, but the sound was muffled, sqwawky, and not worth listening to. I was major league disappointed.
New capacitors helped, but the sound was still bad. Cleaned the level pots. Still bad sound.
My wife was furious! I had just bought a new pair of KLH 5s the previous year. And now wasted $220 on these old beasts. She told me to put them out on the curb; get rid of them!
So I decided to put some work into them. Repaired one woofer. Cloth surrounds, still in like new shape. Glue had separated around the woofer cones. I disassembled the tweeters and rebuilt them. Quite an interesting design, really. Phenolic domes with a build-in-place surround; no skirt around the dome. The midrange drivers were in great shape.
Once finished, I was blown away!
These sound better than my new KLH 5 speakers, and have now replaced them. No fatigue, very clear and natural sounding, wide dispersion. Tight, articulate bass. Amazing on vocals.
Sample sound. Jazz, from an unmolested speaker, as I bought them:
After rebuilding the woofer and tweeter, same music track:
I hooked them up. They sounded terrible. All 3 drivers worked, but the sound was muffled, sqwawky, and not worth listening to. I was major league disappointed.
New capacitors helped, but the sound was still bad. Cleaned the level pots. Still bad sound.
My wife was furious! I had just bought a new pair of KLH 5s the previous year. And now wasted $220 on these old beasts. She told me to put them out on the curb; get rid of them!
So I decided to put some work into them. Repaired one woofer. Cloth surrounds, still in like new shape. Glue had separated around the woofer cones. I disassembled the tweeters and rebuilt them. Quite an interesting design, really. Phenolic domes with a build-in-place surround; no skirt around the dome. The midrange drivers were in great shape.
Once finished, I was blown away!
These sound better than my new KLH 5 speakers, and have now replaced them. No fatigue, very clear and natural sounding, wide dispersion. Tight, articulate bass. Amazing on vocals.
Sample sound. Jazz, from an unmolested speaker, as I bought them:
After rebuilding the woofer and tweeter, same music track:
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Martyn Miles
pfm Member
A friend has acquired a pair of speakers made by McIntosh, model XR14.
I’ve always associated McIntosh with amplifiers, not speakers.
The XR14s are impressive looking, being 30” high, 14” wide and 10” deep.
Four drivers, consisting of 10” woofers, 5” lower mids., 1&1/2” dome upper-mids. and 1” soft dome tweeters.
We connected them up and they were better sounding than I expected.
Nice bass, tight and ‘clean’ sounding.
The midrange was a surprise, open and smooth.
Top end detailed and open and didn’t draw attention to itself.
The woofers need re-foaming and a kit has just arrived so we can start work.
As for the woodwork, the cabinets are in reasonable condition but will require some
restoration work.
I’m looking forward to some long-term listening on my own system.
I’ve always associated McIntosh with amplifiers, not speakers.
The XR14s are impressive looking, being 30” high, 14” wide and 10” deep.
Four drivers, consisting of 10” woofers, 5” lower mids., 1&1/2” dome upper-mids. and 1” soft dome tweeters.
We connected them up and they were better sounding than I expected.
Nice bass, tight and ‘clean’ sounding.
The midrange was a surprise, open and smooth.
Top end detailed and open and didn’t draw attention to itself.
The woofers need re-foaming and a kit has just arrived so we can start work.
As for the woodwork, the cabinets are in reasonable condition but will require some
restoration work.
I’m looking forward to some long-term listening on my own system.
wow&flutter
pfm Member
I would add Allison Acoustics to the list, enjoyed every pair I heard 45 years ago. The ones, threes and fives I remember. The Brit alternatives were arguably better but the Allison’s were fun