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Record cleaning fluids - audible residue?

V

vesuvian

pfm Member
Who here claims to be able to hear the residue left behind after using commercial record cleaning fluids with vacuum RCMs?

It seems that a final rinsing with distilled/deionized water is recommended by many but I'd like to keep my cleaning regimen as simple as possible.

I've just been experimenting with the Keith Monks Discovery fluid and am not convinced that it is inaudible (and that's after cleaning on a KM Prodigy RCM). It sounds to me as if high frequency energy is reduced a little, the sound becoming a little less airy.

It's early days, though, so I'm not absolutely certain, but I did clean the second side of the same (solo piano) LP using Nessie Vinylin and that didn't seem to have the same effect.
 
Back in the late 1970's I used Permastat fluid, which really DID eliminate static charges and the ability of the vinyl to suck out the entire atmospheric dust once removed from its jacket. You would be able to put a treated album on top of a synthetic carpet and there would be essentially nothing that clung to it upon removal. Try that with an untreated record, and you proably would pull out carpet nails when you attempted to lift it from the carpet along with clumps of carpet fibers entrenched deep within the grooves.

But 30+ years later, ALL the albums treated with Permastat developed horrendous surface noise and obvious distorsion, as the stylus was riding upon a thin film whatever substance the Permastat formed when it was in contact with vinyl for a few decades. This did completely disappear running the albums through a wet-cleaning record cleaner.

I know that Permastat is NOT a record cleaning fluid, but it is a great example of caveat emptor.
 
I've never experienced this - but I'd hope that most (all?) of the fluid was sucked away - along with the gunk.

The fluid that Knosti ship with their Disco Antistat machine used to stick in the grooves. I got fed up of cleaning it off the cartridge and switched to homebrew. I can see why people using that kind of system need to rinse. But not so sure on a vacuum RCM.
 
rontoolsie said:
But 30+ years later, ALL the albums treated with Permastat developed horrendous surface noise and obvious distorsion, as the stylus was riding upon a thin film whatever substance the Permastat formed when it was in contact with vinyl for a few decades. This did completely disappear running the albums through a wet-cleaning record cleaner.
Click to expand...

Permastat is the one where people stuck those infuriating little ‘P’ stickers on the label isn’t it? Instant grading level drop right there as they are very reluctant to come off. Whenever I see them, which is quite often, I know that record needs a good wet-vac clean even if it looks spotless. Thankfully it does clean out.

LencoClean, a wet-play system, was even worse, but again can be restored with a good wet vac cleaner.
 
Tony L said:
LencoClean, a wet-play system, was even worse, but again can be restored with a good wet vac cleaner.
Click to expand...

True but I used a commercial form of wood glue for the purpose, DiskMask. It was even useful on brand new LPs removing a faint haze.
 
Unless pure to several places of decimal ppm, water is conductive, static and water are totally and completely and utterly incompatible.
If someone thinks otherwise, they are headed for a Nobel if they can prove it.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

Seems the jury - unsurprisingly - is still out on this matter.

I would have thought it was possible for a manufacturer to devise an experiment that proved that their fluid didn't leave behind a residue. The blurb for KM Discovery states that a listening panel was involved in its development, which leads me to believe that it does have a sonic signature and does 'treat' the record groove.
 
Tony L said:
Permastat is the one where people stuck those infuriating little ‘P’ stickers on the label isn’t it? Instant grading level drop right there as they are very reluctant to come off. Whenever I see them, which is quite often, I know that record needs a good wet-vac clean even if it looks spotless. Thankfully it does clean out.

LencoClean, a wet-play system, was even worse, but again can be restored with a good wet vac cleaner.
Click to expand...

thanks for that -
I have seen loads of those ’P’ stickers on labels and never knew why they were there - I just assumed it was previously owned by a Peter, Paul or Pip.

re: audible residue - apart from the crap stuff that came with the Disco Antistat, which I used twice and then dumped - I haven’t had any problems since then.
 
Whether there's residue depends on how the record is dried after the ultrasonic wash. In cases where the washed records are 'air-dried', there can be residue when the ultrasonic bath has become dirty due to repeated use. I can hear it. I usually do a distilled water rinse after the ultrasonic wash and vacuum off. It's tedious.
 
I agree with all of this and also have terrible memories of Lencoclean! Thank God that crap came off the records after cleaning. I use a home brew of ca 30% IPA with DI water & drops of dish washing liquid and never have a problem with residue, particularly now that I've modified the Moth by placing the wand above rather than below the record. Now I get a much more consistent contact and that turbo vacuum pump gets the record dry and clean in just a couple of spins usually.
 
hockman said:
Whether there's residue depends on how the record is dried after the ultrasonic wash.
Click to expand...
Which is, i.m.o., the main drawback with ultrasonics, however efficient they are. There's no substitute for immediate vacuuming then evaporation for final dry (quicker with IPA mix, of course). When that record is cleaned, you want it dried toute suite and into the inner sleeve
 
I personally use a D.I.Y. mix recipe from the London Jazz Record Collectors Club in my Okki Nokki vacuum based RCM.
Per litre it is 5ml of Ilfotol, 200ml Isopropyl and 800ml Water ( I personally use R.O. water from a local aquatics centre) however others have used distilled or Pure lab grade water. Anyway, the mix works very well I find
 
Never considered it a problem with a vacuum cleaning system. But would have concerns with the ultrasonic machines as the fluid is not removed with any force - it's just dried on, as it were...
 
After 35 years of trying almost everything from brush type devices, vacs, fluids, potions, sticky pads , rollers, PVA etc etc...I built this ultra sonic cleaning device and is the only one that cleans the crap out of the grooves IMO.

And there is a clear audible improvement from before and after treatment with far less pops and clicks...On the back there is a variable speed reduction gearbox so I can set the rotation to almost zero but 1 RPM seems to work perfectly at 30 deg C for 10 - 15 mins. After 10 records (I can clean 4 at a time) there is visible crud at the bottom of the tank. The solution is distilled water + 10-15% IPA and a few drops of dish washing solution.

Air dry in 10 mins or you can used a hair dryer on low heat for faster drying times.

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Yes - but it's still dried with the fluid bath residue the record is cleaned in, isn't it? No rinsing, like a washing machine...
 
robbyd said:
Yes - but it's still dried with the fluid bath residue the record is cleaned in, isn't it? No rinsing, like a washing machine...
Click to expand...
No...thats what the dish washer fluid is for the cleaning fluid does not stick/stay on the record surface once lifted clear of the bath.
 
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