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Record cleaning fluids - audible residue?

rontoolsie said:
Back in the late 1970's I used Permastat fluid, which really DID eliminate static charges and the ability of the vinyl to suck out the entire atmospheric dust once removed from its jacket. You would be able to put a treated album on top of a synthetic carpet and there would be essentially nothing that clung to it upon removal. Try that with an untreated record, and you proably would pull out carpet nails when you attempted to lift it from the carpet along with clumps of carpet fibers entrenched deep within the grooves.

But 30+ years later, ALL the albums treated with Permastat developed horrendous surface noise and obvious distorsion, as the stylus was riding upon a thin film whatever substance the Permastat formed when it was in contact with vinyl for a few decades. This did completely disappear running the albums through a wet-cleaning record cleaner.

I know that Permastat is NOT a record cleaning fluid, but it is a great example of caveat emptor.
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Leave a Permastat LP in certain types of poly-lined sleeve, and you get a wonderful crazy paving pattern of Permastat on the LP. Will try and get a picture of one of those from the collection
 
rontoolsie said:
Back in the late 1970's I used Permastat fluid, which really DID eliminate static charges and the ability of the vinyl to suck out the entire atmospheric dust once removed from its jacket. You would be able to put a treated album on top of a synthetic carpet and there would be essentially nothing that clung to it upon removal. Try that with an untreated record, and you proably would pull out carpet nails when you attempted to lift it from the carpet along with clumps of carpet fibers entrenched deep within the grooves.

But 30+ years later, ALL the albums treated with Permastat developed horrendous surface noise and obvious distorsion, as the stylus was riding upon a thin film whatever substance the Permastat formed when it was in contact with vinyl for a few decades. This did completely disappear running the albums through a wet-cleaning record cleaner.
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I also used Permastat ... but I followed its application with a wet/vac clean on a Nitty Gritty. I found this removed the "thin film" you mentioned - whilst the LP remained static-free.

I found that when I treated the LP with Permastat before then dropping the cleaning fluid onto the grooves (and wiping it around the LP) ... there was considerable dispersion of the fluid into the grooves - which assisted the wiping process; without the Permastat ... the drops stayed as drops on the record surface. šŸ˜®
 
I propose a hybrid cleaning method - first clean the record with a cleaning fluid (detergent/surfactant/alcohol) on a wet vac machine, then run it through an ultrasonic machine using only distilled water, then remove the water back on the wet vac.

I'm convinced that the cavitation effects in an ultrasonic are beneficial, but I'm not convinced by the air drying method the ultrasonic machines use.
 
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Tumeni Notes said:
Leave a Permastat LP in certain types of poly-lined sleeve, and you get a wonderful crazy paving pattern of Permastat on the LP. Will try and get a picture of one of those from the collection
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Yes, I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. Fortunately most LP's I had at the time were pure paper sleeves without the plastic porthole.
 
Yank said:
I propose a hybrid cleaning method - first clean the record with a cleaning fluid (detergent/surfactant/alcohol) on a wet vac machine, then run it through an ultrasonic machine using only distilled water, then remove the water back on the wet vac.

I'm convinced that the cavitation effects in an ultrasonic are beneficial, but I'm not convinced by the air drying method the ultrasonic machines use.
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That's gilding the lily but the downside is having two (expensive?) machines to do one job.
 
Yank said:
I propose a hybrid cleaning method - first clean the record with a cleaning fluid (detergent/surfactant/alcohol) on a wet vac machine, then run it through an ultrasonic machine using only distilled water, then remove the water back on the wet vac.

I'm convinced that the cavitation effects in an ultrasonic are beneficial, but I'm not convinced by the air drying method the ultrasonic machines use.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that sucking off the fluid from the record surface with wet/vac RCM is a good idea (compared to air-drying) - but I suggest your first step (doing a wet/vac clean) is unnecessary. Simply put the LP in a US tank - with the appropriate cleaning fluid - and then vacuum it dry.

Mike Reed said:
That's gilding the lily but the downside is having two (expensive?) machines to do one job.
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Sure - but each one does its optimal job:
* US tank to clean and
* wet/vac RCM to remove the dirty fluid from the grooves.
 
Not a fan of ultrasonic cleaning as I feel they need a rinse & vac afterwards anyway. My preference is tap rinse, record cleaning solution with 5 minutes dwell time, mofi flat square velvet pad to agitate then wet vac followed by deionised rinse and further vac dry.
 
andyr said:
Simply put the LP in a US tank - with the appropriate cleaning fluid - and then vacuum it dry.
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I have no experience with US machines, so I'm not speaking from personal knowledge, but - many US proponents claim that detergents and/or surfactants are unnecessary, that cavitation does the job without chemical assistance.
 
sq225917 said:
My preference is tap rinse, record cleaning solution with 5 minutes dwell time, mofi flat square velvet pad to agitate then wet vac followed by deionised rinse and further vac dry.
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Don't follow this; why tap rinse before cleaning on a wet-vac? Apart from being tricky (label), doing so in my hard water area would seem to be counter-intuitive. Using a pad to spread/scrub has the potential to rub any detritus into the record; brush is better and safer i.m.o.

As I mentioned up-thread, if you're using an IPA mix, there's really no need to add further water and vac. afterwards. Other mixes I won't comment upon. Water constituent with suspended nasties = sucked out. IPA = evaporated. Guess there's no downside apart from extra cost of distilled water though.

Having said the above, if you are able to inspect that rinse water after vacuuming (but don't see how, effectively) and it looks contaminated, a whole new can of worms arises ! :)
 
laverda said:
After 35 years of trying almost everything from brush type devices, vacs, fluids, potions, sticky pads , rollers, PVA etc etc...I built this ultra sonic cleaning device and is the only one that cleans the crap out of the grooves IMO.

And there is a clear audible improvement from before and after treatment with far less pops and clicks...On the back there is a variable speed reduction gearbox so I can set the rotation to almost zero but 1 RPM seems to work perfectly at 30 deg C for 10 - 15 mins. After 10 records (I can clean 4 at a time) there is visible crud at the bottom of the tank. The solution is distilled water + 10-15% IPA and a few drops of dish washing solution.

Air dry in 10 mins or you can used a hair dryer on low heat for faster drying times.

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I use the Velvet Vortex, an equivalent design. It works superbly.
 
For those worried about water residue drying and contaminating the freshly cleaned grooves on the surface of the vinyl, no worries, I spin dry. Instantly expelling any of the small amount of liquid left on the surface of the LP and dry in seconds. :)

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laverda said:
For those worried about water residue drying and contaminating the freshly cleaned grooves on the surface of the vinyl, no worries, I spin dry. Instantly expelling any of the small amount of liquid left on the surface of the LP and dry in seconds. :)

53665744617_081909cf4e_k_d.jpg
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Is a 20V drill required, or will 12V do?
 
@ mike Reed, it keeps the amount of crap than contaminates my lovely velour vacuum head brushes to a minimum.
 
laverda said:
For those worried about water residue drying and contaminating the freshly cleaned grooves on the surface of the vinyl, no worries, I spin dry. Instantly expelling any of the small amount of liquid left on the surface of the LP and dry in seconds. :)
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You've really got the bit between your teeth there; an amazing contraption ! Puts a completely different spin on drying records. šŸ˜
 
Tumeni Notes said:
Leave a Permastat LP in certain types of poly-lined sleeve, and you get a wonderful crazy paving pattern of Permastat on the LP. Will try and get a picture of one of those from the collection
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I picked up a Stones LP in a bargain bin yesterday that was completely covered in some kind of crazing. Mystery solved!

I'm guessing if it's a reaction with the poly sleeve it's permanent damage?
 
paulfromcamden said:
I picked up a Stones LP in a bargain bin yesterday that was completely covered in some kind of crazing. Mystery solved!

I'm guessing if it's a reaction with the poly sleeve it's permanent damage?
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Folks here suggested wet clean will do the trick; I have a Moth RCM, but haven't specifically looked out any Permies yet. Will post back when I have results for a few
 
paulfromcamden said:
I picked up a Stones LP in a bargain bin yesterday that was completely covered in some kind of crazing. Mystery solved!

I'm guessing if it's a reaction with the poly sleeve it's permanent damage?
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I have seen a lot of those ripple covered records.
As far as I recall, it doesnā€™t clean off, but doesnā€™t always mess up the playback..
Always looks like a reaction to the poly inner sleeve to me.
Unless something special I either chuck it in the bin, or sell for Ā£1.
 
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