Quad ESL 57's
- Thread starter effinity
- Start date
Paul Dimaline
12" round member
I once heard about a guy that used stacked 63's in a mobile home
, so theres your answer. Nip upto Skeggy, hand over £350 and drive away with a dedicated detached listening room. Sorted!
Paul.
, so theres your answer. Nip upto Skeggy, hand over £350 and drive away with a dedicated detached listening room. Sorted!Paul.
John
Rack’em Up!
Hi John,
Not sure how big your living space is but maybe at some point you can purchase a pair and use them in a spare room. Get a second integrated amp and connect it to your main system with a long interconnect and use your Quads in that room. You can use your excellent sources in either system.
I knew someone who used old Quads in a small bedroom and he really liked how they sounded.
John
per flemming
Registered User
Being happy with my Naim and Sugden A21a amps, I was pretty surpriced how beautifull a pair of Futterman (copy) OTL amps with a Croft tubed preamp managed a pair ESL 57 !!
I have never heard old Quad's perform better..four listeners was sitting there, amazed !
Holy cow !
Where do I find an OTL amp ?
Per
I have never heard old Quad's perform better..four listeners was sitting there, amazed !
Holy cow !
Where do I find an OTL amp ?
Per
I took my 57's to Paul Greenfield of 'Classique Sounds' Leicester and thence to 'One Thing Audio' where they were fettled.
Both needed new treble panels; dust covers; new electronic bits; 'clamps' and re-wiring.
I also purchased a pair of purpose designed stands. Raising the '57 is very worthwhile and the stands incorporate a virtually essential tilt adjustment, as the vertical and horizontal alignment of these babies is critical.
I have run mine with a Nait2 up to a pair of 135's with very good results. They now 'guest' occasionally, in place of my SBL's and coming down off the electrostatic experience; any moving-coil speaker in a box sounds just plain weird, artificial and wrong.
This magnificent transducer was conceived and made when hardly anybody had a source to do it justice!
It makes one wonder what speaker designers have been pissing about at for the last 50 years!
The problem is of course (as the originator of this thread has stated) that they are large, unpractical - and ideally need a big room to do their thing. They would also be very expensive to produce today. Naim had a go some years back, and gave up!
I will not part with my 57's - a Hi-Fi 'classic' able to hold its head up, 50 years down the line.
John.
P.S. The dark centre section (treble panel) is an artefact of the flash photography)
Both needed new treble panels; dust covers; new electronic bits; 'clamps' and re-wiring.
I also purchased a pair of purpose designed stands. Raising the '57 is very worthwhile and the stands incorporate a virtually essential tilt adjustment, as the vertical and horizontal alignment of these babies is critical.
I have run mine with a Nait2 up to a pair of 135's with very good results. They now 'guest' occasionally, in place of my SBL's and coming down off the electrostatic experience; any moving-coil speaker in a box sounds just plain weird, artificial and wrong.
This magnificent transducer was conceived and made when hardly anybody had a source to do it justice!
It makes one wonder what speaker designers have been pissing about at for the last 50 years!
The problem is of course (as the originator of this thread has stated) that they are large, unpractical - and ideally need a big room to do their thing. They would also be very expensive to produce today. Naim had a go some years back, and gave up!
I will not part with my 57's - a Hi-Fi 'classic' able to hold its head up, 50 years down the line.
John.
P.S. The dark centre section (treble panel) is an artefact of the flash photography)
AB;
Tricky as you say; but when both treble panels were working (with the original electronics and wiring) they sounded just plain tired by comparison. 57's can have a unjustified reputation for suiting classical music, by virtue of their warm, laid back sound.
This opinion is generally perceived from exposure to old and tired 57's. Apparently the HT electronics thingy degrades over time, and the speakers lose their potential output and oomph!
I play rock type music through my 57's and these relics can boogie like a bastard. They are clean and very fast, due to the incredibly low mass of their radiating surfaces.
What they won't do is 'seriously loud' or produce much output below 50 Hz. That said; the available volume is quite enough for an SBL freak like myself in an average sized room.
So; yes it's worth getting them properly fettled if you own a pair. They are a bit like a sports car which will operate in a poor state of tune and stay on the road. Elevated to their full potential, the drive becomes very exciting and a permanent grin develops.
John.
Tricky as you say; but when both treble panels were working (with the original electronics and wiring) they sounded just plain tired by comparison. 57's can have a unjustified reputation for suiting classical music, by virtue of their warm, laid back sound.
This opinion is generally perceived from exposure to old and tired 57's. Apparently the HT electronics thingy degrades over time, and the speakers lose their potential output and oomph!
I play rock type music through my 57's and these relics can boogie like a bastard. They are clean and very fast, due to the incredibly low mass of their radiating surfaces.
What they won't do is 'seriously loud' or produce much output below 50 Hz. That said; the available volume is quite enough for an SBL freak like myself in an average sized room.
So; yes it's worth getting them properly fettled if you own a pair. They are a bit like a sports car which will operate in a poor state of tune and stay on the road. Elevated to their full potential, the drive becomes very exciting and a permanent grin develops.
John.
per flemming
Registered User
Is that a regulated Exposure amp your running the 57 with ?
Per
Per
Good question ACM - and it comes with a tricky answer.
I consider the 57/SBL difference in the same way that I think about the CD/vinyl (I enjoy both) debate. Both speakers put a smile on my face but have very different attributes.
The SBL's are my main speakers in an all Naim system. After a while I yearn for the 'correctness' of the 57's and use them for a few weeks. But I have to be nice to them, because they are a bit of a treasure to be loved and treated with respect.
When I can no longer put off getting 'down and dirty' - it's back to the SBL's - which although putting another smile on my face; do sound just plain wrong (for a while), after the Quads.
As Oscar Wilde said - "Comparisons are odious".
John.
Those 'niggling doubts' I expressed earlier in this thread are becoming ever more niggling.
I've moved my listening room around so that the ESL57's now fire down the length of a rectangular room; a more ideal location for the Quads - well away from back wall, closer to side walls.
All is wonderfull...except. I think the DNM PA1 (30watts) may not have what it takes, because of the new position I'm turning up the volume just a tad, and finding the sound bright/edgy. At first I put it down to room acoustics or the Sony CD, however I'm not talking 'loud' volume; just slightly louder than before, the effect is there even when using the LP12. I think it is yer actual distortion! Turn down the wick and all is sweet once more.
Now I wished I kept the NAP140! Oh well so options are scanning ebay/online dealers for a suitable NAP or Exposure or Linn LK? or ? Alternatively I could build an Avondale?
So far web browsing I have seen :
Exposure 15 (hifiguy)
Crimson 620 (Loud & Clear)
Linn LK2 or LK280 (Ebay) What's the difference?
If a humble NAP90 would work then that has potential as a base for upgrading with bits from Avondale in the future.
Any thoughts are welcome!
I've moved my listening room around so that the ESL57's now fire down the length of a rectangular room; a more ideal location for the Quads - well away from back wall, closer to side walls.
All is wonderfull...except. I think the DNM PA1 (30watts) may not have what it takes, because of the new position I'm turning up the volume just a tad, and finding the sound bright/edgy. At first I put it down to room acoustics or the Sony CD, however I'm not talking 'loud' volume; just slightly louder than before, the effect is there even when using the LP12. I think it is yer actual distortion! Turn down the wick and all is sweet once more.
Now I wished I kept the NAP140! Oh well so options are scanning ebay/online dealers for a suitable NAP or Exposure or Linn LK? or ? Alternatively I could build an Avondale?
So far web browsing I have seen :
Exposure 15 (hifiguy)
Crimson 620 (Loud & Clear)
Linn LK2 or LK280 (Ebay) What's the difference?
If a humble NAP90 would work then that has potential as a base for upgrading with bits from Avondale in the future.
Any thoughts are welcome!
per flemming
Registered User
Go for a tubed poweramp, I found a Nap didn't quite match..
Per:
I have my doubts about tube amps, not that I think all tubes are bad; i owned a couple back in the 1980's including a pair of EAR509's which were superb as they did not sound like tube amps at all, unlike a VTL which unfortunately did!
What did you find wrong with the NAP? (which NAP?)
I have my doubts about tube amps, not that I think all tubes are bad; i owned a couple back in the 1980's including a pair of EAR509's which were superb as they did not sound like tube amps at all, unlike a VTL which unfortunately did!
What did you find wrong with the NAP? (which NAP?)
per flemming
Registered User
Nothing really wrong its just as the tubes manages the 57 to sound better, fuller, unstrained IMO...hard to explain.
As an example, with a pair DIY Futterman OTL the ESL 57 could be driven at very low and/or very high levels with no problems for 4 (four) people listening comfortable to both speakers.
This was not the case using transistor amps, here it was important to take place exactly between the speakers. - Irritating.
I have never heard such a fine bas reproduction from these speakers with the OTL's mono's, it was astounding.
They really took the 57 to a level no ESL 63 never ever will enter.
By several other ocations I have used tubes/ESL57 with fine results
I have not heard a 250 or higher but am considering tubes only for my 57.
on list is:
Leak st 20
Radford sta 25
Michaelson TVA10
Copland (older)
Quad II (offcourse)
Croft V or OTL
Atmashere
amo.
I don't think its realistic to find orig Futterman, must also stress that mentioned DIY amps was too noisy for me, but an amazing sound.
Per
As an example, with a pair DIY Futterman OTL the ESL 57 could be driven at very low and/or very high levels with no problems for 4 (four) people listening comfortable to both speakers.
This was not the case using transistor amps, here it was important to take place exactly between the speakers. - Irritating.
I have never heard such a fine bas reproduction from these speakers with the OTL's mono's, it was astounding.
They really took the 57 to a level no ESL 63 never ever will enter.
By several other ocations I have used tubes/ESL57 with fine results
I have not heard a 250 or higher but am considering tubes only for my 57.
on list is:
Leak st 20
Radford sta 25
Michaelson TVA10
Copland (older)
Quad II (offcourse)
Croft V or OTL
Atmashere
amo.
I don't think its realistic to find orig Futterman, must also stress that mentioned DIY amps was too noisy for me, but an amazing sound.
Per
My own view is that 57's were designed to be run with tubes
Up until fairly recently I ran ESL 57s with a Meridian 101 and a TVA1, and from my own 20 years experience I can say that in some ways I miss the transparent, breathing wall of sound that only 57s and a tube amp can produce.
The only drawback was the lack of top and bottom end extension but nothing but nothing can even approach the mid range of these speakers.
Ry Cooder's Paris Texas on vinyl was simply stunning through this set up.
Eddie Fincham at Papworth Audio who now looks after TVA products is so helpful and his tubed mono blocks should be given due consideration.
A useless piece of info but Tim de Paravicini of Michealson Austin who designed the amps he just simply called them TVA (Tims Valve Amps)
Here is the link http://www.papworthaudio.demon.co.uk/
Regards
Mark
BTW a new house, dogs and SWMBO put an end to my little black radiators
Ta for the ideas. I would need a home demo to convince me to try valve gear again. There is a TVA8 on Ebay at the moment but it is too expensive to risk buying blind (or should that be buying deaf?).
As it stands all I need is a few more amps where the ESL's need them., the DNM is wonderful so long as the volume is low-ish. The dnm PA2's would be just right, but they are rarely on the 2nd hand market.
As it stands all I need is a few more amps where the ESL's need them., the DNM is wonderful so long as the volume is low-ish. The dnm PA2's would be just right, but they are rarely on the 2nd hand market.
Call me a crazy b*stard, if you will, but here's what I'm up to.
I have a Naim system (CDS2/XPS/NAT01/52/Supercap/2 x 135), which I was playing through ESL63s. Then I tried a pair of ESL57s and was captivated. So now I've bought two pairs of ESL57s off eBay for rather less than one thousand British pounds. I shipped them off to Germany where, for some four times that amount, they are being rebuilt from scratch with all new panels and electronics and mounted in custom made frames as a "stacked pair".
Yes, that's an horrendous amount of money but I don't believe that there's a (hand-built) equivalent available today approaching the quality of the system I will have for the outlay.
Oh, and by the way, I plan to reinforce the bass with Naim's new n-Sub!
G
I have a Naim system (CDS2/XPS/NAT01/52/Supercap/2 x 135), which I was playing through ESL63s. Then I tried a pair of ESL57s and was captivated. So now I've bought two pairs of ESL57s off eBay for rather less than one thousand British pounds. I shipped them off to Germany where, for some four times that amount, they are being rebuilt from scratch with all new panels and electronics and mounted in custom made frames as a "stacked pair".
Yes, that's an horrendous amount of money but I don't believe that there's a (hand-built) equivalent available today approaching the quality of the system I will have for the outlay.
Oh, and by the way, I plan to reinforce the bass with Naim's new n-Sub!
G