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Quad ESL 57's

effinity

effinity

pfm Member
I've just aquired a pair of these with black grilles, been advised they need stable amplification (no Naims oo er!).

Anybody got any good suggestions for a toe in the water approach to valve experimentation?

I've no idea whats good or what will go well with the electrostatics, apparently 15w will drive them but being used to a lot more amp power i'm more than a little confused - Help!

Probably a power amp to start which i'll use with a solid state ATC CA2.

Steve
 
You can't really go wrong with Quad IIs! Apparently a Nait 2 is a very good and affordable match too.

Tony.
 
cheers Tony,

i'd have laughed if someone had suggested a month ago i'd be looking for suitable amps for Quad electrostatics.

i had some Quad II's in the late 70's, used em with big Tannoy 15" inch dual concentrics. The II's are looking quite pricey these days for a good svc'd pair but worth considering if i decide to take the whole thing seriously.

On the One Thing site they caution against unstable amps which can apparently get fried when using with the electrostatics, causing damage both ways.

I was advised by an electronics engineer not to use my 110 for example, to try out the 57's.

i would prefer to go down the pre/power route if possible.

initially i just need to try the buggers out to see if i can live with em.

My wife's initial comments were 'what the **** are those things sitting in the hall?

Luckily she was smiling as she said it! :D

I won't tell you what my 14 yr old daughter said!

Oh the blessings of living in a democracy :rolleyes:

Steve
 
This page is worth a read, especially the comments about naim's once mooted Electrostatic and the switch to dynamic speakers! The (chrome bumper) 250 and nait 1 get the nod 'blows the Quad 405 away', as does LesW.
 
Perfect link, thanks Duncan!!

Picks up on Tony's comment earlier too.

I'm almost tempted to try the 110 but no, the pleasure will be in the chase!

I'll report back.

Steve
 
Originally posted by effinity
Perfect link, thanks Duncan!!

I'm almost tempted to try the 110 but no, the pleasure will be in the chase!

Steve
Click to expand...

I've used a Naim Nait, 110, 140 and Exposure 15 and 18S with no problems. I know a Linn LK280 will work as well. Quad links? Here's another one

Enjoy,
John
 
The NAP250 is a classic match to the ELS57, Vereker approved and all. It's recommended that you get the PSU voltages turned down a little so that you cannot exceed the maximum input the ELS is designed for. If you use NACAx then you will have no problems. Go ahead and try the NAP110, I suspect that you cannot harm the speakers unless you go for gross overload of the amp.

The LK280 is a very cheap and extraordinarily good power amp, but you could arc ELS57s with it so care over gain would be required.

FWIW my LK280 drives my ESL63s without any bother or concern, when an Audio Note (I think) valve amp was tried it audibly distorted at very modest levels. Got me quite worried about my speakers for a while.

Paul
 
Cheers for the encouragement (John and Paul) re trying out the 110.

I had to get up in the small hrs to take a call from overseas, i was a bit early so i logged on to pfm and saw John's comments and i thought 'well he's done it with a 110, so can I!'

So at about 2.30am this morning I lugged the 57's to the system, switched off, plugged up and bingo! Kenny Burrell with all the benefits of early morning mains electricity was 'sweet as a nut'.

I did'nt know where the sound was coming from, it seemed omni directional, i had to keep looking behind the er.........radiator things.

I got so engrossed, forgot about my phone call and my wife put her head round the door to demand to know what i was doing and to tell me the phone was ringing off the hook!

When i got back from the call (i'd turned the volume right down) the music was still going and the speakers were nicely warmed up, quite frankly i was amazed, even though i had expected the sound to be good.

I was'nt sure what condition the esl 57's were in sonically as they had'nt been switch on and played for 5 yrs or so but they seemed fine, very detailed and quite spacious in the mid and treble and not at all lacking in bass.

Its probably a case of me having grown into the sound perhaps, i'm really curious to hear them with a quality valve pwr amp, as i mentioned earlier i'll probably use an ATC CA2 as pre initially.

Interesting, comments tallying re LK280 Paul & John.

Any ideas for valve power amps/monoblocs (i'm not dismissing the 250 suggestion either btw but i am lusting for glowing bottles somewhat) or do you think a valve pre is the key here?

Steve
 
Originally posted by effinity
switched off, plugged up and bingo! Kenny Burrell with all the benefits of early morning mains electricity was 'sweet as a nut'.
Click to expand...

Peolpe who know more about Quads than I do recommend that you leave the speakers powered for a few hours before playing music on them. Apparently the electrostatic panels take a while to get charged evenly over their whole surface; if you play music too loud too soon, damage can occur.
 
hi Marcus,

yes, luckily for the Quads it was the wee hours of the morning so I could'nt blast it but to be honest the 57's just don't give off that vibe of wanting to turn up the volume although i'm sure with the right tweeks such as clamp boards, (sound like a Beverley Hillbillies episode!), its possible.

Steve of One Thing says

"clamp boards are two electronic boards which you install into the speaker (each clamp is fitted to one of the speaker's corner braces, full instructions supplied). Higher powered amps behave better with electrostatic speakers because they are less liable to run into clipping, and it's the ugly waveform produced by clipping that puts stress on electrostatic panels. But you will damage electrostatic speakers if you drive them too hard - unless you fit the clamp board. This will protect the panels if you 'overdo the volume. So to have the 'best' amps for electrostats, you need more power, but also the clamp boards installing to prevent you damaging the loudspeaker."

Steve also says that the combination of clamp boards & high power amp with a valve pre gives best results.

Quad & Wharfedale Service Manager tells me:-

"If you return your Quad ESL 57's to the address below with a covering letter. We will Quad factory service to full working specification. Our charges are labour fixed at 45GBP per speaker, plus defective parts replaced, plus VAT and return carriage.

Year of manufacturer 1978

We cannot search for service history by serial number.

Regards,

Rob Flain"

So, 1978, relatively late models which probably explains why everything seems to work fine and I know from the previous owner that they have not been used to the full during their lifetime. That does'nt mean they can't deteriorate over time but these do seem fine.

I won't be keeping mine, not that I don't like the sound, I do, but amp matching and everything necessary to allow me to sit back and just listen and feel totally satisfied are not on the cards timewise. Not to mention the space required and I know I would want to get two more and stack em! My wife is very accomodating of my 'habit' but there's no way she'd tolerate four black radiators hanging in mid air!:D

I'd love to create a hi fi museum with 5 or 6 different rooms and systems from say the 5 decades, the 57's with optimum amplification etc would definitely have a room.

As all the kind folk who have contributed links and information have proved, there is absolutely masses of guidance for anybody who really wants to take the 57 experience to the max.

Steve
 
At last I've managed to find some dedicated stands for the '57s after a year of watching Ebay and other_places.

I'm still trying to get them sat in 'just the right spot' and I hope I can find that spot soon as I'm getting tired of the.... remove speaker, lift bloody heavy lump of iron an inch, replace speaker routine.
The results are already very good indeed; where did that extra bass come from! I've also noted a few more round-earth 'effects' which are slightly worrying - more 3d but what the f*** do I care about that.

Oh and they were a bargain compared to the £210 (gulp) One Thing Audio are now charging. And I've just realised the vendor is the same chap who reviews the 988's in the recent HiFiPlush, a trustworthy source indeed.
 
Just curious if anyone has actually tried this combination? I may have a buyer for my Virgos, and I don't want to concede the super-fast sound of the Virgos, so the Quads (being electrostatic) I suspect would be a decent alternative.

I really like '63s, but haven't heard '57s though I know many folks rave about them.

Ta,

jtc
 
Originally posted by JTC
Just curious if anyone has actually tried this combination? I may have a buyer for my Virgos, and I don't want to concede the super-fast sound of the Virgos, so the Quads (being electrostatic) I suspect would be a decent alternative.

I really like '63s, but haven't heard '57s though I know many folks rave about them.

Ta,

jtc
Click to expand...

A Nait 1 works fine with 57's. I used that combination for a couple years and a friend of mine did as well. I would suppose a Nait 2 would perform as well or better. Here's a link that describes amps that work well with old Quads. Naim is mentioned if you scroll down.

http://www.quadesl.org/Amplifiers/amplifiers.html

John
 
I'll have a look at that link.

jtc

PS. If one is buying Quad ESLs, is it better to buy the 63s or take ones chances with the 57s (and their rep. for being fragile)? Sonics and cost aside, I have to say I prefer the 'look' of the 63s, and at least in my case it's a known quantity as I've heard them a few times before and always been extremely impressed. ANy idea of the going rate for 63s?
 
Originally posted by JTC
I'll have a look at that link.

jtc

PS. If one is buying Quad ESLs, is it better to buy the 63s or take ones chances with the 57s (and their rep. for being fragile)? Sonics and cost aside, I have to say I prefer the 'look' of the 63s, and at least in my case it's a known quantity as I've heard them a few times before and always been extremely impressed. ANy idea of the going rate for 63s?
Click to expand...

A couple of things, not everyone thinks that the 63's are better than 57's. I have never heard 63's, but I know quite a few folks who have and prefer the 57's quite a bit more. Buyer beware I guess, but you can always sell them off later for little loss.

If the 57's are working, I don't see you having a fragility problem with them. It would be hard to damage 57's with a Nait. I bought my pair used around 1985 and they worked fine but would arc on one of the tweeters on certain tracks at certain loud volumes. The panel worked like that for a number of years till I finally replaced it in 1994. I ran the speakers with an Exposure 15 (40 watts per channel) from 1992-1998, an amp with perfect output for old Quads.

I started using them with a more powerful amp Exposure 18 in 1998. This was an improvement but was also a worry as it had the output that could damage the speaker if overdriven. I could have added a protection circuit to the Quads to prevent damage, but I heard it degraded performance so never bothered.

I did manage to blow the other speakers tweeter one day in early 2000 when blasting Pink Floyd Pulse. It was replaced with a new tweeter supplied by Quad in Germany who bought all the jigs from Quad to build new panels. It has worked fine since being replaced and matched well with the other panel.

In late 2000, I created a new main system in my basement and moved my rack to more solid ground from a suspended wood floor in my living room. I put my 15 back into commission with the Quads and linked that combo to the main system via the tape out.

The Quad combo now sounded better than it did before, even with a lesser amp now driving them. I'm pretty certain this was due a couple improvements in setup that took place. One, the component rack with the tt, phono pre, and line pre was now on a more solid surface in the basement, better grounded, and two, the isolation between the speakers and amp improved when I went to using my wall shelf for the amp.

My other system on my porch, which I was very familiar with also improved when the main rack was moved to the basement. Even though I downgraded the amp in my porch from the Exposure 15 to a Marantz receiver.

The Quads look more modern and sound a lot better on good stand.

John
 
JTC :

I'd expect a Nait to work well with the ESL57, I did try a NAP140 oh so briefly with mine which was rather great. My PA1 is fine although I cannot help having a niggling doubt that it has enough power but no desire to spend money to find out.

I can fully understand having doubts about buying an old pair of used '57s ; if they had been abused or damaged in the past. I had the same concerns, just take care to check them out as best you can.

I'm not sure if I would prefer '63s, they seem to sell around the £1k mark on Ebay, maybe less if you can find an ad in a newspaper or HiFi rag.
 
...all bets are off as my wife took one look and blackballed the idea - too big, too ugly, etc. - and she also used the 'D' word in negotiations. So, perhaps I might have to pass on the ESLs, which is a shame as I really liked what I heard of the 63s and I could move to 57s, sell the Virgos and have a grand and a half left for play money....

Damn!

jtc
 
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