JohnW
pfm member
We have a smaller display then Mytek's - but they will be decent level meters
Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 digital DAC
- Thread starter miero
- Start date
We have a smaller display then Mytek's - but they will be decent level meters
Good news. Thanks.We have a smaller display then Mytek's - but they will be decent level meters
Maybe full screen audio visualization option, like this:
Left to right is 20 Hz to 20 kHz, and top half is left speaker and bottom half is right. Provided you have enough CPU and fast enough display update do drive something like this (and time to implement it).
Then whenever something changes that needs an update of regular display, the regular display is shown for a few seconds, then back to audio visualization (smooth fade transitions of course).
Yea I know, probably not realistic, but it would be cool!
Left to right is 20 Hz to 20 kHz, and top half is left speaker and bottom half is right. Provided you have enough CPU and fast enough display update do drive something like this (and time to implement it).
Then whenever something changes that needs an update of regular display, the regular display is shown for a few seconds, then back to audio visualization (smooth fade transitions of course).
Yea I know, probably not realistic, but it would be cool!
hi @JohnW - that'd be cool to be able to push DSD1024 .. that seems to be about 86Mbits/second ... that one will need to push timely via network and into the USB ...
As you are probably aware - before going with that - can you pls see if you can replicate my findings with playing 'native' DSD (512 and lower) - when it starts working (e..g. upsampling all content) - its great. but if one plays mixed (PCM and DSD) it often seems to produce hiss within 1st 5-10 seconds when transitioning from PCM to DSD.
Does not happen when using DoP (up to DSD256).
Tx !
JohnW
pfm member
Again, I'm not sure if there is a solution to the PCM to DSD transition as this would be down to the ESS "format detect circuit" - if this is the case then for sure its nothing we can do.
The odd thing is that we use Foobar in the Lab exclusively and I've not experience what you described.
For the DOP / PCM detect circuit to work the data must be bit accurate - we have seen instances of streamer / software that are not Bit accurate at the initial start of the track - be it due to buffering or fade-in volume ramp up.
The odd thing is that we use Foobar in the Lab exclusively and I've not experience what you described.
For the DOP / PCM detect circuit to work the data must be bit accurate - we have seen instances of streamer / software that are not Bit accurate at the initial start of the track - be it due to buffering or fade-in volume ramp up.
JohnW
pfm member
Maybe full screen audio visualization option, like this:
Left to right is 20 Hz to 20 kHz, and top half is left speaker and bottom half is right. Provided you have enough CPU and fast enough display update do drive something like this (and time to implement it).
Then whenever something changes that needs an update of regular display, the regular display is shown for a few seconds, then back to audio visualization (smooth fade transitions of course).
Yea I know, probably not realistic, but it would be cool!
I'm pretty sure that the XMOS core we have available for display function has the MIPS for such a rendered bargraph - the trouble is we are hardware guys that are forced into Embedded programming - to make matters worse, the XMOS variation on C is just horrid horrid horrid.... let me stress there is NOTHING worst then working with XMOS:-
There Complier and development tools are so full of bugs you never know if your at fault or your fighting a complier bug.
Terrible, Terrible,Terrible documentation - with critical information always found not documented...
It appears XMOS no longer gives a damn about supporting audio applications - rather putting all there limited FAE resources into Microphone arrays used in the Amazon voice products and such... from where we stand it appears they have just dumped "us" audio guys as the grass looks greener elsewhere
I could go on, but I can say this - we questions ourselves if we are such bad programmers yet we will have software going on an ARM processor within 20 minutes - yet the same task will inevitably take 2 days or more days with the XMOS as it just never EVER works as it should.
After working with XMOS programming environment you don't have to ask yourself why XMOS are now co-packing XMOS cores with an ARM CPU...!!!
We would love to offer more software features - better UI etc, but trust me we are happy we have got this far!
If some one wants to try (we would need to trust you first), we would be happy to open sections of the code up - especially the UI...
left channel
Prominent Member
We appreciate your struggles with XMOS, @JohnW. Even though this is a rather small field, a quick Google search for "XMOS bug" brings up over 19,000 results, and "XMOS buggy" almost 15,000. Many of them concern audio development. Sigh.
left channel
Prominent Member
I've received another reply from Pro-Ject PR & tech support. Here's my summary of our latest exchange:
Following my suggestion, the CD contents are now available on the Pro-Ject website. Scroll down and you'll find a "download the latest Driver" section, between the Reviews and FAQ. You'll have to enter your serial number to reveal the link. Just download it, extract the Zip file, and click setup.exe
The beta firmware update has been sent to distributors. I don't understand why they don't just put it on the Pro-Ject website, with the driver. Maybe when it's out of beta.
They will review the incorrect user manual section on external power + USB. Apparently the English version is written by their manufacturing partner.
I have seen some complaints about not being able to stream MQA from a Bluesound NODE2 to the S2 via coax. The Pro-Ject rep says MQA doesn't work over S/PDIF, and this is something Meridian folks are working on themselves. And yet Bluesound support reps say it should work, and here is a support page saying exactly that: https://support.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/articles/115006191908-Why-Isn-t-My-External-DAC-Playing-MQA- Comments?
Following my suggestion, the CD contents are now available on the Pro-Ject website. Scroll down and you'll find a "download the latest Driver" section, between the Reviews and FAQ. You'll have to enter your serial number to reveal the link. Just download it, extract the Zip file, and click setup.exe
The beta firmware update has been sent to distributors. I don't understand why they don't just put it on the Pro-Ject website, with the driver. Maybe when it's out of beta.
They will review the incorrect user manual section on external power + USB. Apparently the English version is written by their manufacturing partner.
I have seen some complaints about not being able to stream MQA from a Bluesound NODE2 to the S2 via coax. The Pro-Ject rep says MQA doesn't work over S/PDIF, and this is something Meridian folks are working on themselves. And yet Bluesound support reps say it should work, and here is a support page saying exactly that: https://support.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/articles/115006191908-Why-Isn-t-My-External-DAC-Playing-MQA- Comments?
JohnW
pfm member
Are yes, Sorry I had no idea you where streaming over SPDIF... yes the SPDIF is not decoded via the XMOS hence no method to decode MQA over SPDIF.
We have a nice matching streamer for the DAC, we are in advance talks with Pro-Ject so I hope you will have a solution "soon".
The Streamer / media player supports upto Bit accurate 384KHz PCM, and DSD128 (DSD256 native), supports Roon, Tidal and Spotify, uPNP etc... so lets hope for Heinz's approval
We are also working to allow USB CDROM connection for CD-DA playback, Clock-locked to the DAC via the ASync USB connection.
We have a nice matching streamer for the DAC, we are in advance talks with Pro-Ject so I hope you will have a solution "soon".
The Streamer / media player supports upto Bit accurate 384KHz PCM, and DSD128 (DSD256 native), supports Roon, Tidal and Spotify, uPNP etc... so lets hope for Heinz's approval
We are also working to allow USB CDROM connection for CD-DA playback, Clock-locked to the DAC via the ASync USB connection.
JohnW
pfm member
Yes, you can decode MQA over SPDIF but you first need a separate SPDIF decoder - we don't have the space for this on the Pro-Ject DAC PCB and it wound also impact the low jitter clock performance and cost...
SPDIF is a sonically flawed interface due its clock structure, the sooner we move away from it the better.
SPDIF is a sonically flawed interface due its clock structure, the sooner we move away from it the better.
dclark2171
Member
Can I ask a question. Why does the Pro-Ject manual and website for the S2 NOT point out that MQA is USB only?
left channel
Prominent Member
As I mentioned above, the manual was written by the manufacturing partners, and I believe they are in the Czech Republic. But the business people and other managers are in Austria, and in this case the developer is based in the UK.
This is how things fall through the cracks when outsourcing / contracting out, even with a lot of Skyping and plane flights. It's hard enough for tech writers who work in the same building to pin down everything about a product that is concurrently under development.
Anyway, [/end rant]. They are reviewing the user manual now, and I will write back to emphasize it's not only the power section that needs looking at. Luckily we live in the age of the PDF.
This is how things fall through the cracks when outsourcing / contracting out, even with a lot of Skyping and plane flights. It's hard enough for tech writers who work in the same building to pin down everything about a product that is concurrently under development.
Anyway, [/end rant]. They are reviewing the user manual now, and I will write back to emphasize it's not only the power section that needs looking at. Luckily we live in the age of the PDF.
I got some update for the occasional drop-back to PCM when playing MQA, Brian at Roon tested with the S2, Explorer2 and Brookly DAC, and in Roon and Tidal. He got the drop-back to PCM in both the S2 DAC and the Brooklyn DAC, and in both Tidal and Roon.
If the Brooklyn DAC uses XMOS, and if the MQA unfolds takes place there, it would point to an error/instability in the MQA library.
If the Brooklyn DAC uses XMOS, and if the MQA unfolds takes place there, it would point to an error/instability in the MQA library.
JohnW
pfm member
Have you got the MQA test file used during the test so we can try here - I've not seen mid file MQA dropouts with foobar - but its important to use the same test file so we are all on the same page...
Its form Tidal, so I don't have the test tune as a file. But it was from the latest album by artist Lights, and the tune is called Kicks.
With MQA Passthrough enabled in the Tidal desktop app, the glitch also happens, so if you have Tidal you can use that instead. The glitch happens randomly though, so might need to play for a while.
left channel
Prominent Member
There's something wrong with Tidal's version of that track. Using the Tidal app for Windows I'm getting a glitch that I don't see or hear playing other tracks in the same album, at about 7 and 35 seconds into Kicks, not every time but often.
The only way to do a reliable MQA test is to download and play MQA files locally. I've used free downloads from the 2L Test Bench, which are somehow more age-appropriate than Lights/Cliffie for me...even after calculating half-plus-seven.
The only way to do a reliable MQA test is to download and play MQA files locally. I've used free downloads from the 2L Test Bench, which are somehow more age-appropriate than Lights/Cliffie for me...even after calculating half-plus-seven.
JohnW
pfm member
Yes, Agree...
If files play OK from local playback then the problem is not with the DAC.
That said, we still dont know whats going on...
We test the DAC with Foobar and local playback - I've not seen an issue with mid file MQA dropout...