Zombie
pfm Member
Your either optimistic or naïve, it's a sinkhole...and the edge is about to give in
Please Help! LP12 upgrade gone wrong...
The idea that you should fit magic mushrooms or some other upgrade right now is ridiculous. The deck sounded fine, you changed a couple of things and now it doesn't. Changing more things will not help as the current flaw will remain and all you'll do is compensate for it at best and at worst end up with no idea what is doing what and why you still don't like it. Despite being even more out of pocket.
You need to stop and go through the deck systematically. Is it properly set up? Is it all working correctly? And if so, what part is doing things you don't like?
And I hate to say it but taking it back to the dealer who set it up may not be the best move. If they could not set it up right before, they probably won't be able to now. Say they're over-tightening bolts for instance. If they think that's correct they won't identify it as a fault.
You need to stop and go through the deck systematically. Is it properly set up? Is it all working correctly? And if so, what part is doing things you don't like?
And I hate to say it but taking it back to the dealer who set it up may not be the best move. If they could not set it up right before, they probably won't be able to now. Say they're over-tightening bolts for instance. If they think that's correct they won't identify it as a fault.
Hate to agree with Mr Pig, but in this case he is spot on.
I'm talking that as a compliment. I think..
Nic Robinson
Moderator
Nah, buy a Techn....actually listen to Mr Pig. Your LP12 should sound excellent.
silverdarter
Active Member
Ooh interesting - thank you. So my plan is to take absolutely everything, so they can make a full assessment of the system and how well it is working together. I'll add your point to my notes - thank you.
silverdarter
Active Member
Thank you - I will bring this up tomorrow!
Tony L
Administrator
To add to what Mr Pig said there is no law saying you have to prefer the sound of later Linns. As years passed the LP12 became a leaner, tighter, more forward and analytical sounding record deck. No one has to like that if they don’t want to no matter how frantically a dealer taps his foot!
silverdarter
Active Member
This is a good point, and betrays my inexperience. The answer is no! What would you recommend?
silverdarter
Active Member
Oh for sure. To be clear, I have welcomed recommendations from people posting here, as I am keen to digest a breadth of opinion. But my plan has been to essentially go two steps back, so leave one element changed, and see what difference that brings. Then re-introduce another component and work out the cause by a process of elimination. I did suspect it might be a mistake to change three things at once because I wouldnt know where I was. And I was at least right about that... But yes, certainly not planning to introduce new components at the moment. That would definitely add to the confusion.
I know the approach above may still not solve the issue, so properly setting it up is a definite concern. I worry about transporting it home in the car too in case I unsettle it. I can't comment on the ability of the dealer, due to lack of experience with them and indeed the LP12. It sounds from various posts as if the ability of dealers varies quite a bit and that there will be some strong opinion as to who is best.
silverdarter
Active Member
Thank you and yes I am definitely more concerned with getting it right for me to enjoy music as I wish to, so I hope the listening session and some comparisons will teach me a good bit. And forgive my inexperience, but I am very interested to know what people mean when describing things as 'forward'?
Craig B
Re:trophile
The cheapest brush that actually works is the Pro-Ject Clean-It. This is a knock-off of a brush that AKG included with their cartridges from back in the '70s. Short, tightly packed carbon fibre bristles. If a tip has never been cleaned it will have built up some crud on (i.e. it isn't just the fluff), in which case, suggest very slightly dampening the bristles with stylus cleaning fluid (audio-technica and Nagaoka are both recommended), and subsequently use only dry and regularly (I clean mine before every listening session, as minimum). The diamond barely has to contact the bristles for the latter to scrub the tip. Most importantly, only draw the brush from back to front, i.e. the same direction that the record groove passes beneath.
As Craig posted, a short stiff CF brush is great, before every side. However, if you have baked-on crud (from never having cleaned your stylus before) then you may find that a HF vibrating stylus-cleaner is required (with some IPA on the pad). I have an Ortofon one ... there are others out there.
After the initial de-crudding, I would suggest using a square of 'Magic Eraser' on the stylus, on a regular basis - in addition to the stylus brush. You simply lift it up to the stylus when the arm is on its rest.
The fibres of the ME are an effective scraping mechanism - so deal with crud which the CF bristles are unable to dislodge. Of course, stylus cleanliness also depends on how clean you keep your records - which is a whole 'nuther kettle of fish!
Whilst I totally agree with you ...
And was also able to extract more of the low-level information in the grooves!
(Which in my view ... is a very good thing!)I bought the Nima on something of a whim ( I liked the way it looked) and I almost expected to be disappointed but figured I could sell it on. But it was better in every way to the Ittok which Peter Swain had given a clean bill of health to in a previous service. It was less harsh and simply more enjoyable to listen to. I didn't add the Art-9 at that time so I can discount the improvement being down to the cartridge change which happened later. Even my wife commented that she could hear what Dylan was singing with the Nima. I'd never go back to the Ittok. Hope this helps.
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
I had a similar experience changing my bought-from-new Ittok LVII for a new ARO. I think it is the uni-pivot sound signature, which is simply more fluid, natural and unforced. The downside is that bass isn't quite as deep reaching, but the tunefulness is much better. The one advantage of the Ittok, which I miss, is its easier cue-ability by hand.
wiresandmore
pfm Member
Agree on the Aro, worked very well for me when I had the LP12 - the bass issue was significantly improved with a Keel, admittedly at a high cost.
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
I use a 5mm x 25mm piece of 1000 or 2500 grit paper and a microscope. A steady hand is required but the microscope is optional. With practice you can not only drag the grit paper under the stylus as if it were the record passing, but you can also use the flex of the paper to scrub safely the front, back and sides of the stylus shank, very very gently. I emphasize the steady hand advice. Rest it on something solid so that you can control tiny movements with your fingers only.
This works miraculously when the problem is a pyramid of stubborn accretion all around the tip but not at the tip itself. I've seen styluses that could not be resuscitated by brushes, putty et cetera because the accretion was so stubbornly caked around the shaft. I've heard some awful-sounding cartridges spring back to rude health by the grit paper method, and it happens more often than you might think.
There's some plastic green abrasive paper which is sanctioned by Linn, among others, but I find fine grit paper just as good.
Don't worry - diamonds are very hard - just don't use a grit coarse enough to rip off the shank. Cutting out a piece of the strike patch on safety matches (not Swan Vestas) works well too, although it's better to use a thinner paper to limit the applicable pressure.
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
Also be aware that using fluids can destroy your cartridge forever.
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
Not all uni-pivots have a weakness in bass, and not all uni-pivots are unsettling to cue by hand.