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(Physically) downsized...need to pick new speakers (and maybe an amp)

cruster

cruster

pfm Member
Howdy, helpful PFM brethren.

I recently sacrificed the dedicated listening room I've had since moving into my current house in 2003 to move into a smaller room in the same house. Growing daughter, growing hobbies, growing exercise equipment, etc...a story as old as time. I actually don't mind at all making the move, but I've run into a bit of trouble in that I just...can't...make my current speakers fit well into the space.

I've attached a layout with an ultra-realistic drawing of the position(s) of my speakers and couch in the new space. The room is...well, it's sort of sewn together in the house out of the space that other rooms didn't need, so it's not particularly cohesive, and with all the doors (an entry door, three closet doors, and a pantry door), there's really only ONE layout that makes sense, in my estimation. The issue is that, given that layout, the furthest apart I can get my speakers is about 7', and the furthest I can get away from the speakers is around 8', and...given the size of the room, my Rega RS5s are overpowering the space. A little too much bass makes things fatiguing, and I haven't been able to get them set up in a way that restores the imaging I previously enjoyed.

I am thinking about switching to some more modest (in profile) stand mounts, and wondering if folks have suggestions. The trick, of course, is that, given everything going on in the world, bouncing from dealer to dealer to audition is not really feasible (read: safe), so I may have to take a shot on the popular vote winner and hope for the best, reserving the right to sell it off later.

I've pored over posts here, of course, and while I can come up with a shortlist of speakers I think might suit, what I feel like I don't really see is folks posting about what kind of music they listen to coming out of those speakers, so I'm nervous about charging into a well-reviewed monitor that is...well-reviewed pinned to the tail of acoustic jazz, since I don't listen to that. So...my loose requirements:

- Has to fit into the ill-defined space depicted, since I'll be there for the forseeable future
- Has to work for indie-rock, rock, shoegaze, and that sort of thing. Favorite bands and stuff I'm likely to listen to: Smiths, Cocteau Twins, Pixies, Chameleons, Slowdive, Innocence Mission (outlier, that), Trashcan Sinatras, Charly Bliss, Ride, Sundays, Alvvays...guitars on top of guitars, I guess. It's not always the most immaculately recorded stuff.
- Does have to have some bass presence. I recognize that I'll be sacrificing impact to some degree, but I still need to be able to follow the rhythmic stuff. My guess is that BBC monitors aren't going to meet my needs...?
- I am not opposed to some warmth or color. Recorded music doesn't sound like a concert to me, and I'd rather give up a little in ultimate realism for a sound that I can sit and listen to for hours.
- Spatial presentation is important to me.
- Needs to sound good at a relatively low volume. This is a listening room only - it's just me sitting in there when it's in use, so the volume is rarely, if ever, cranked up.
- Budget is...I dunno, I'm open. Under 2500 GBP? I would attempt to buy used as that always represents greater value for money to me, but...I'm also at a point in my life where I would like to buy things ONCE and just spend my time enjoying them.

Primary listening is done via a Rega RP8, currently fitted with an AT VMN40ML, into a Graham Slee Accession. These aren't going anywhere.

Amplification is currently a Rega Cursa into Rega Exons. Twist ending...I am also thinking about making a change to an integrated, so recommendations for integrateds that might fit into this scenario are welcome as well, though I plan on building backwards from the speakers. Reasons to change: it's a lot of power for a small space, the gear itself takes up a lot of room in a small space, and I can't find a spot on the volume knob of the Cursa between "mute" and "too loud to be background noise"; I sometimes hide out in here to do quarantine Zoom calls with family and friends, and at the moment I can't get the volume down low enough to listen to but still hear calls, which is a real bummer. Also - I'm not opposed to a change. I've had this setup for around 7 years, and I've never had anything but Rega amplification since moving into "grown-up" stereo gear. I love it, but I am open to trying other stuff. Speakers are the key, though.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm just not enjoying my setup at the moment and would love to fix.

Thanks!

3Cpl4ZK.jpg
 
How about Rega’s own RX1 or possibly RX3? Daft question but have you tried swapping the speakers around so as the side firing bass units are facing the opposite direction? For something different and excellent, I’d try looking at Neat, the Iotas are excellent, as are the Iota Alphas and Motive SX3 and SX2.

As for the amplifier, the Rega Atheos is rather nice, a baby Osiris! Left of field suggestion (well maybe not for me as a Linnie), a Linn Majik DSM would outperform your current Rega amps, and you’d get an excellent streamer, DAC and room correction too.
 
Interesting problems!
I wouldn't buy any new equipment until I had played about with all the components I already had, you have very good quality gear!

1) to reduce the volume control problem I would try out the following, a) take the Cursa out of the chain and run the Accession with its variable output directly into the power amps. If this works but you still want a remote to control the volume you can use the Accession variable output into the Cursa, also try going into the CD input rather than the Cursa input you are currently using as the CD input may be less senstive. If this helps can either keep using the Accesion variable output or buy a pair of Rothwell input attenuators.

2) the bass problem. Lots of things to try here.
a) Buy a piece of plastic pipe that fits snugly into the Rega port. Measure the length of the Rega port and cut the plastic pipe so that it is about 50% longer than the original. You have now changed the tuning frequency the bass drive from 40Hz? to perhaps 32Hz? and reduced the level of upper bass significantly. Listen to a bass heavy track and see if you like the change.
b) Similar to (a) plug the ports with a pair of wollen socks, this will reduce the bass out of the port. Is it better?
c) Combine (a) and (b)

3) room problem, use the REW room simulation tool to see which bass frequencies are dominant in your room, probably about 35Hz from the width (16ft) of the room, about 55Hz from the length of the room, and various other frequencies.
Use amroc from amcoustics.com to look at how the problems frequencies are made. Then download a frequency generator onto your phone, or use REW, output the phone signal into the Cursa via the headphone output cable and see which frequencies, sweep from 30Hz to 200Hz, cause the booming bass that you don't like.
Try this with the doors of your room opened and closed.
Now you will know what the problem frequencies of your room are!
You can then buy a pair of small LS3/5a closed box size speaker with a -3dB point about 80Hz and these will hardly excite all the low frequency room modes you have just found, unfortunately your system will probably then sound bass light.
Alternatively you would follow Jem Haywards suggestion in another post and use a mini dsp unit to "tame" the low frequencies in your room buy adding digital filters to reduce the volume at these frequencies. I believe the RS5 speakers have seperate binding posts for the bass and Midrange/tweeter. You would then feed the filtered dsp signal through the Rega Exons onto the RS5 bass drivers, probably incredibly dry fast bass when you have got the tuning of the dsp right. Because your Exons power amps are now being used solely for the bass you need to get another power amp to feed the midrange and tweeter drive units. As Jem suggests a Radford power amp, or similar, would be perfect for this task.

There are obviously thousands of variations on this theme but hopefully this post gives you food for thought!
 
Cruster

PMC floor standers in the 20/25 range work well near boundaries IME (due to their front exiting transmission line).

If your set on a standee though, and given your excellent taste in 80s/90s indie music, I would go for Russell K 100s which I have heard at my dealers a couple of times now - it times really well and its treble won't take your ears off.

Both options are more or lessen budget. Once you have narrowed down your search, I think a home demo is a must as your room does look tricky and you are rightly intent on finding your final speaker.

Ray
 
linnfomaniac83 said:
How about Rega’s own RX1 or possibly RX3? Daft question but have you tried swapping the speakers around so as the side firing bass units are facing the opposite direction? For something different and excellent, I’d try looking at Neat, the Iotas are excellent, as are the Iota Alphas and Motive SX3 and SX2.
Click to expand...

Y’know...all the moving I’ve done, I haven’t tried the bass units out. The R is pretty close to that bump out wall, but...it’s worth a shot. Thanks!

TonyScarlett said:
Going to be advertising my Amphion Argon1s & Exposure 3010S2D soon, they should work superbly in that space. Just a thought.
TS
Click to expand...

Thanks for this - Exposure integrated definitely on my list to audition at some point. I’m afraid I’m in the States, though - shipping might be rough!


cpg said:
2) the bass problem. Lots of things to try here.
a) Buy a piece of plastic pipe that fits snugly into the Rega port. Measure the length of the Rega port and cut the plastic pipe so that it is about 50% longer than the original. You have now changed the tuning frequency the bass drive from 40Hz? to perhaps 32Hz? and reduced the level of upper bass significantly. Listen to a bass heavy track and see if you like the change.
b) Similar to (a) plug the ports with a pair of wollen socks, this will reduce the bass out of the port. Is it better?
c) Combine (a) and (b)

3) room problem, use the REW room simulation tool to see which bass frequencies are dominant in your room, probably about 35Hz from the width (16ft) of the room, about 55Hz from the length of the room, and various other frequencies.
Use amroc from amcoustics.com to look at how the problems frequencies are made. Then download a frequency generator onto your phone, or use REW, output the phone signal into the Cursa via the headphone output cable and see which frequencies, sweep from 30Hz to 200Hz, cause the booming bass that you don't like.
Try this with the doors of your room opened and closed.
Now you will know what the problem frequencies of your room are!
You can then buy a pair of small LS3/5a closed box size speaker with a -3dB point about 80Hz and these will hardly excite all the low frequency room modes you have just found, unfortunately your system will probably then sound bass light.
Alternatively you would follow Jem Haywards suggestion in another post and use a mini dsp unit to "tame" the low frequencies in your room buy adding digital filters to reduce the volume at these frequencies. I believe the RS5 speakers have seperate binding posts for the bass and Midrange/tweeter. You would then feed the filtered dsp signal through the Rega Exons onto the RS5 bass drivers, probably incredibly dry fast bass when you have got the tuning of the dsp right. Because your Exons power amps are now being used solely for the bass you need to get another power amp to feed the midrange and tweeter drive units. As Jem suggests a Radford power amp, or similar, would be perfect for this task.

There are obviously thousands of variations on this theme but hopefully this post gives you food for thought!
Click to expand...

Thanks for this - interesting thoughts on trying to tune the Rega ports a bit. I will try this - hey, it’s free. I did download REW but haven’t rounded up a mic yet - the room is...interesting, to but sure, but - surely it isn’t impossible.

thebigfredc said:
Cruster

PMC floor standers in the 20/25 range work well near boundaries IME (due to their front exiting transmission line).

If your set on a standee though, and given your excellent taste in 80s/90s indie music, I would go for Russell K 100s which I have heard at my dealers a couple of times now - it times really well and its treble won't take your ears off.

Both options are more or lessen budget. Once you have narrowed down your search, I think a home demo is a must as your room does look tricky and you are rightly intent on finding your final speaker.

Ray
Click to expand...

Thanks for this - I actually hadn’t heard of Russell before, so I’ve got some reading for tonight. I was thinking standmounts only because the Regas seem to be overpowering the space, but...I suppose it is entirely possible that it’s just a bad match for those particular speakers, and I shouldn’t discount an entire form factor as a result! Food for thought - thanks.

johnacurtis said:
+1 for Russell K speakers, but I would go down to RK 50's. Demo both and listen to the big difference in sound.
Click to expand...

Two for Russell K - interesting. Thanks!

Cereal Killer said:
This should work superbly in that room https://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum...o-note-an-k-spe-speakers.241960/#post-4021076 not so sure of the stands aesthetics but that's a POV.
Click to expand...

Thank you - VERY interested in hearing some Audio Note. I did see that post last night and gazed lovingly upon it, but I suspect shipping to the US might be rough.

Dozey said:
Dsp to correct for the room issues?
Click to expand...

Interesting thought. First reaction is that I like to keep things reasonably analog - 95% of my listening is vinyl. Second reaction is...maybe I should read more about DSP as an option. Thank you.

I appreciate all the feedback. Thanks very much.
 
I would suggest a high quality standmount speaker designed to be used in free space perhaps with a little reinforcement from the rear wall. Pull your listening seat forward a little so it's not flat back against the opposite wall giving you a near field set up. Your Rega amps should be capable of driving nearly any speaker and you may require a bit of power depending on what standmount speaker you try.
My personal preference is for SF speakers. I'd also recommend Totem speakers, Model 1 would be a good fit and sounds excellent with Rega amplification.
 
Add a minidsp, sort your room modes out and keep the rest of the kit. You already liked your setup previously

Def a vote against Russel k here. No bass definition, noisy cabinets, with sod all weight or proper bracing. Seem to be an acquired taste. Speakers shouldn’t act like an acoustic guitar, they’re there to reproduce what was recorded, not to create their own sound and add to the recording
 
My listening place has a similar side wall by my left ear. Sound improves 30/40% when I edge forwards. Pull your sofa away from the back wall and put some deadening material (try an old blanket to get some idea of effectiveness) behind you. 3 ft out will be fine. Now you can also move that R speaker away from the corner. They may well be fine further back so try simply reducing the size of the triangle down to say 7 all round. .If you pull the settee out, you can shift both speakers leftwards in fact. There is nothing good about placing the speakers symmetrically in the room space.
L speaker right by the window. R speaker 7 ft to the R of that. Angle the sofa a bit if you need. Try aiming the speakers at you knees when you are seated. Add the blanket. If this doesn't work then small stand mounts R U. Stick to Rega amps if you like the sound, and try to find some used Audiovector R1's.
 
I have a system with Cursa/Maia in my spare room, which is 11’ square. I ended up buying a pair of used Naim allaes after auditioning them in situ. I did find the difference between a nice even bass and a one note bass was a 5mm change in speaker position from the wall behind. They can be picked up for a few hundred these days but try very hard with your current speakers first. I’ve found Sumiko Masterset (do a search) can come in handy as a positioning method though I’ve never quite managed to follow it fully (I use minimal toe in) I have got the broad sweet spot it aims for in a couple of setups.
 
Another vote for REW and a MiniDSP. I have one driving my DIY active kitchen speakers, and another managing just the bass in my semi-active main speakers. You have a room that is going to be a bit awkward for any speaker so dealing with the room is the way to go.
 
JemHayward said:
Another vote for REW and a MiniDSP. I have one driving my DIY active kitchen speakers, and another managing just the bass in my semi-active main speakers. You have a room that is going to be a bit awkward for any speaker so dealing with the room is the way to go.
Click to expand...
I’d thought of the Linn DSM because the OP was thinking of a new amplifier, the Linn space optimisation works well and can be fine tuned. I’d not thought of the Mini DSP, I’ve looked at them before but not tried one. It’d be interesting to try a DSM against a similarly priced regular amp with a Mini DSP, a post lockdown experiment I must get round to!
 
You have a decent budget. Be radical & go for a pair of standmount actives & reduce the box count. This should give more control. ATC is a good starting point, may need to change pre-amp?
 
What about active speakers?
Less boxes but you would need mains power at each speaker.
Dynaudio’s Lyd’s could be a good option as they have a close to wall setting and Dynaudio’s will be happy with your musical genres.
If not i would look at sealed boxes.
 
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