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Miles Davis

kjb

kjb

Proof reading not always a strength
Spent a lot of today listening to Miles Davis. Kicked off with an old Plugged Nickel vinyl, onto ESP, then In a Silent Way, Jack Johnson, Agartha, then back to Miles Smiles. I've noticed that Davis rarely gets mentioned around here apart from the regular dismissal of Kind of Blue.

I probably play Davis more than Coltrane or Mingus and think his collective works stand comparison with these two. I was thinking the other day that he produced intricate, modal, acoustic ESP and the coruscating, electric Agartha within a decade which, in terms of musical development, is pretty astounding. I'll concede that he didn't produce anything as intense as A Love Supreme, as rich as Mingus's best compositions - indeed his compositions are often weaker than those from other band members - and his musical conservatism, particularly where the avant garde developments of the 60s were concerned, does slightly undermine claims that he changed the course of music four times or whatever. But I still think there are a lot of great records there and a wider range than pretty much anyone else has put out, especially from 1955 to 1975.

I'm never sure why - on pfm at least - Davis isn't held in the same regard as some of his peers and why his records aren't put more heavily featured on lists when people are recommending jazz.

kevin
 
FWIW I'm not aware of anything wrong with my PC....but I've been listening to Jack Johnson & Silent Way all week in the car. Love it. Had SW on vinyl but this was first listen to JJ.
I LIKE KOB!!
A lot.
But probably not as much as Live at the Filmore East on whatever day it was..
Spanish Key rocks.
Nearly as much as Freddie Freeloader.
But also listened to Miles Ahead this week (first time) & not really my cuppa.
Asking 'do you like Miles Davis?' is a bit like asking 'Do you like food?'.
 
I think KOB is the most overrated record in the history of jazz, but that implies that I think Miles made much better records, as indeed he did. I like the hours of live recordings of the KOB material from in the 4 CD Stockholm 1960 Complete set and the 4 CD Complete Live at the Blackhawk much more than KOB itself, it's played much harder and more free, you can tell even Miles was getting bored with the material so the band have license to really explore it in depth, **** with it, do new things to it.

The fusion records are variable IMO. Some of it is astonishing (Live-Evil, Fillmore East March 1970, Jack Johnson, parts of Bitches Brew), but I think a lot of it is much less interesting than it should have been, and a lot less interesting in hindsight than many other records of the time, whether they be jazz or not. A shame he never got to make the planned record with Hendrix, I think that could have pushed fusion down some much noisier and more angular paths.

It took me a long time to get to grips with Miles, and he still annoys me as often as he convinces me. This is at least a sign his music makes me think, which is no bad thing.

-- Ian
 
Well, personally I don't think Kind of Blue is overrated at all and ranks as one of the finest albums ever made (and to be honest, I don't really see what anyone would have against it). However, Miles did do a lot of other very fine stuff indeed. The early electric stuff (Silent Way, Bitches Brew and Jack Johnson) is amazing, as are his collaborations with Gil Evans and I'm very fond of the Plugged Nickle and the other work with that quintet and, basically, everything else he recorded.

regards, Tam
 
I like Miles a lot. I’ve not got anywhere near as many of his records as I’d like, but out of the ten or so I’ve got I’d say that Relaxin, KOB, Milestones, Someday My Prince Will Come are my favourites. I also love Somethin Else, but Cannonball Adderley is the leader on that so it doesn’t technically count as a Miles LP. I want to get the full set of Miles’ 50s Prestige LPs as I suspect this may be my favourite period. I don’t think I get / like the fusion stuff but I must grab a copy of Bitches Brew to try again as it’s ages since I’ve heard it...

Tony.
 
athos_uk said:
Well, personally I don't think Kind of Blue is overrated at all
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It's always ranked as "The Greatest Jazz Record Of All Time", yet it isn't even Miles's best record, let alone the greatest ever. Therefore, it's overrated.

-- Ian
 
Four & More's version of So What has so much more going for it IMHO..HOW MUCH energy??!!
So maybe you're right about overrated...
But for the average guy in the street rather than us nerds (oops...I mean people who have actually listened to a bit) I can quite understand why KOB is regarded as it is...?
 
Tony,

The Prestige set is excellent (though I only have it on CD and not vinyl) - the final four albums with the first great quintet (Workin', Cookin', Steamin' and Relaxin' are superb, and not to be confused with Walkin' that features a different lineup and is slightly early though also very fine) are probably the highlight though it's also notable for sessions with the likes of Charlie Parker, Paul Lewis, Milt Jackson, Thelonious Monk and Sonny Rollins (not all at the same time!).

regards, Tam
 
sideshowbob said:
It's always ranked as "The Greatest Jazz Record Of All Time", yet it isn't even Miles's best record, let alone the greatest ever. Therefore, it's overrated.

-- Ian
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Well, I have around a hundred discs of Miles (all of which I either like or love) and Kind of Blue would be the one you had to pry from my cold dead fingers. But, each to their own.

regards, Tam
 
I have always had a soft spot for Agharta. It was the first fusion album I bought with my pocket money and it has some great moments, but I think that Miles' playing sometimes verges on the pretty awful on some tracks. I get a lot more pleasure from the other instruments than from the trumpet solo. I think his health was not good at that time.
 
athos_uk said:
Well, I have around a hundred discs of Miles (all of which I either like or love) and Kind of Blue would be the one you had to pry from my cold dead fingers. But, each to their own.
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Fair enough. If you haven't got the live in Stockholm box I mentioned above (put out a few years ago by DiW), you should try and track it down - mostly KOB material, with Trane on some of it (this was his last tour with the group) and Sonny Stitt the rest. Fantastic stuff.

-- Ian
 
My two favourite Miles LP's are In a Silent Way and Dark Magus, although, I think that his was not the most significant or notable creative contribution to either. Live at the Blackhawk rocks - but avoid the truncated re-issues, get one or both of the entire sets.

He is an excellent bandleader and corraler of musicians, although not always the best in the band he's leading.

He has released some total cack. Somewhere I have some Bossa Lp that he realeased in the early sixties and it's unspeakably bland.

KoB is a charming record, it's very polite and, one is tempted to observe, possibly commercially considered. Which would make it a creative success, surely, as it sold so well?

Simon
 
In a silent way, Nefertiti and On the Corner are 3 of my favourite albums of any genre. Spanish Key off BB is one of the most evocative, atmospheric piece of music I have heard.
 
I'm never sure why - on pfm at least - Davis isn't held in the same regard as some of his peers and why his records aren't put more heavily featured on lists when people are recommending jazz.
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He is by me. I love the intensity of his playing on E.S.P. his swing on Relaxin', his wonderful tone with Gil on Sketches..., and the whole modal masterpiece that is KOB. I've just landed a copy of In A Silent Way which after a brief listen to side one seems to suggest something different is happening :eek: :( :confused: :cool:

d
 
For me, Miles' key ability was the bringing together of different elements and making them work, and also allowing freedom for those groups to move in areas where he maybe would not naturally have gone.

I think to say KOB was not even his is missing the point - who would have put Coltrane, Cannonball and Evans together in the same Sextet - on paper (or maybe just in my head) it does not really show signs of working - his Genius was getting them together in the first place.

I think he espoused the true spirit of Jazz, with his improvised base, which is why so many respondents prefer his live versions.

Do I listen to more Coltrane and Mingus these days - probably - do I periodically go back and listen to a few key LP's (KOB, ESP, Silent way, Jack Johnson, Dark Magus, live/evil) and wonder why I listen to anything else - yep
 
As has been said, the key to Miles for me was the ability to blend different ingredients but still retain the signature sound.Mingus's music, while wonderful, always sounds dominated by his own personality rather than shaped by thse he collaborated with, even with strong playets like Dolphy. Davis lets the different voices have a central role - Rollins, Evans, Coltrane, the 60s quintet, Zawinul or Pete Cosey later on. He pulled the different voices together - often wrestling about authorship along the way - to create new textures and sounds while keeping his own identity stamped on proceedings. Richard Cook's book Its About That Time is recommended for exploring these relationships and their impact on the music.

I have to confess that, while a general fan, I don't get on with the Gil Evans records at all. The comments made about KOB - which I love - echo my feelings about Porgy and Bess, Sketches of Spain, even Birth of the Cool. It's a sound that switches me off completely.

Kevin
 
I have to confess that, while a general fan, I don't get on with the Gil Evans records at all. The comments made about KOB - which I love - echo my feelings about Porgy and Bess, Sketches of Spain, even Birth of the Cool. It's a sound that switches me off completely.
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Admittedly there's not a lot of swing to Sketches, but I just love Gil's writing. In fact it's my favourite classical piece.

I think to say KOB is not even his is missing the point - who would have put Coltrane, Cannonball and Evans together in the same sextet - on paper (or maybe just in my head) it does not really show signs of working - his genius was getting them together in the first place.
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I think there's some b/w studio footage of the KOB session. IIRC, Miles solos, then takes a cigarette while Trane puts the horn in his mouth, closes his eyes and... well you know the rest.

d
 
All actual Miles aficionados will have their hair standing on end, nevertheless I love the posthumous account 'Live Around The World'. It's mainly composed of newer mainstream material, which can be wonderful (Hannibal) but some older tunes are also there (In A Silent Way).

On its last tour, Miles' band played incredibly tight, the intro of 'Tutu' must be heard to be believed. The perfect piece for audiofools trying to show the boomboom effect of their mega-watt gear.
 
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