MDAC First Listen (part 00111000)
- Thread starter PhilCTTE
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Not sure if USB-accessible, but the AUX IN seems to have a low-rate ADC,
from http://archimago.blogspot.se/2017/06/measurements-oppo-sonica-dac-ess-sabre.html
or ie.
from http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/dac/oppo-digital-sonica-dac-review/ .
adamdea
You are not a sound quality evaluation device
The relvant section is this (dealing with XLR outputs)
"XLR vs. RCA:
IMO, if you really want to squeeze out the absolute best from today's DACs in high resolution, make sure to use balanced cables...
Unfortunately, the Focusrite Forte cannot handle the high peak voltage of 3.5V from the Sonica DAC. As a result, I had to use the digital volume control to pull back the amplitude by 4dB to get the following results (let's just look at 24/96):
[shows 115dB SNR]
As you can see, I've highlighted the -4dB adjustment I had to make to the Sonica DAC and -3dB with the TEAC UD-501. These compensations obviously would hamper the noise floor results. As impressive as the BDP-105's noise level and dynamic range are, if we added another 4dB back into the Sonica DAC's results, we would be expecting close to 120dB dynamic range or about 20-bits of resolution. This is the highest resolution I have ever seen within the limitations of the hobbyist equipment I'm using. Along with this, we see vanishingly low distortion results with the Sonica DAC. Impressive."
TBH I'm not sure how he gets this result with the focusrite forte whose specs are here -clearly they are hard up against their limits.
https://uk.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/forte/specifications
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
John my mdac has gone quiet.
I used headphones for the first time in ages last night and on return to it today it can't be coaxed out of silence on either xlr out of headphones. Mute is not active...
It also says unlocked under the USB input. optical and spdif are similarly dead.
What do you reckon, relay or crystal?
I used headphones for the first time in ages last night and on return to it today it can't be coaxed out of silence on either xlr out of headphones. Mute is not active...
It also says unlocked under the USB input. optical and spdif are similarly dead.
What do you reckon, relay or crystal?
uwe061
pfm Member
John, The editor of the german magazin STEREO is enthusiastic about your Pre Box S2 Digital!
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/uwe061/media/bWVkaWFJZDoxMzAyNTMxNTc=/?ref=
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/uwe061/media/bWVkaWFJZDoxMzAyNTMxNTc=/?ref=
JohnW
pfm member
Wow, they seem to have real issues measuring the DAC - I'm not sure whats going on there - I suspect they tested via USB using the Windows re-sampler or some such. The "crap" around the bottom on the test tone skirt is a sure sign of the Windows re-sampler...
We measure a dynamic range of 123dB to 124dB!
How do the German magazines work? - 4 stars in the UK would be bad! or is the German Magazine scale more realistic?
JohnW
pfm member
Try resetting it - hold Up/Down together during power-up.
JohnW
pfm member
The Dual ESS DAC version of MDAC2 will be around 134dB Awtd dynamic range (Via XLR) - the 124dBA dynamic range is a small "Development DAC" for the streamer - nothing to do with MDAC2 / FDAC.
uwe061
pfm Member
The 4 Stars are for the price-performance ratio (= very good). Most products got 2 ore 3 Stars.
There are a ranking list of "absolute quality" and the S2 got "75%" (for example: Brinkmann Nyquist got 100%, MSB Platinum 98%, RME ADI2Pro 85%). The "ranking" is very good for this low price.
There are a ranking list of "absolute quality" and the S2 got "75%" (for example: Brinkmann Nyquist got 100%, MSB Platinum 98%, RME ADI2Pro 85%). The "ranking" is very good for this low price.
JohnW
pfm member
Uwe,
OK, so now we are happy
- Thank you
You know its very hard for use to have a "reference" as we when we design we don't start out by saying this is going to be a GBP330 DAC, but try to do the very best we can within the budget - we really do try and push the design limits.
We have FDAC / MDAC2 DAC's development boards we listen to & our "Reference Discrete DAC" - so judging a GBP300 DAC is very hard - sure its not as good as the FDAC / MDAC development boards, but its a great little DAC for the money IMO... but what do we know about GBP300 Dacs!
We have a few early DAC's in the field - such as the guys developing the MDAC2 streamer software as it uses our audio coprocessor software stack, and while we where not expecting them to "critically" listen to the DAC's (only use them to confirm software functionality) we have had very positive remarks about the SQ - so that's a good sign I guess
OK, so now we are happy
- Thank you You know its very hard for use to have a "reference" as we when we design we don't start out by saying this is going to be a GBP330 DAC, but try to do the very best we can within the budget - we really do try and push the design limits.
We have FDAC / MDAC2 DAC's development boards we listen to & our "Reference Discrete DAC" - so judging a GBP300 DAC is very hard - sure its not as good as the FDAC / MDAC development boards, but its a great little DAC for the money IMO... but what do we know about GBP300 Dacs!
We have a few early DAC's in the field - such as the guys developing the MDAC2 streamer software as it uses our audio coprocessor software stack, and while we where not expecting them to "critically" listen to the DAC's (only use them to confirm software functionality) we have had very positive remarks about the SQ - so that's a good sign I guess
AWESOME!
That's about 22 bits of resolution, very impressive.
I did check the competition when it comes to the ADC and i wasn't able to find anything that seams better for less than the cost of the entire mdac2 so it may be worth getting the mdac2/fdac just for the ADC itself.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
nope nothing. Still saying unlocked on the mdac screen when I play rather than the data rate. Peak level meter moves But nothing else happens, same on all inputs.
JohnW
pfm member
Simon,
To me it sounds like the cable from the front panel to mainboard is missconnected or damaged - is your MDAC open?
Some 4 years ago, I joined this forum as I had a problem with my MDAC. I was told that there would be an updated board available in 6 months that would fix the problem. I decided to join up, paid my dues and eagerly awaited the upgrade. Since then we have been subjected to the most incredible scope creep, missed deadlines and escalating costs to the point at which this is no longer financially viable for me to continue. All I ever wanted was a simple upgrade to my MDAC.
For the past few years, I have only dipped in and out of this forum as it is technically way above my understanding and is cluttered with people’s personal problems and side discussions regarding the merits or otherwise of concepts and project direction. Some months ago I suggested a monthly summary email for us lesser educated folks so that we would not have to wade through the mountains of irrelevant (to me) information but this was dismissed as too much of an overhead.
I fully accept that this is John’s passion and commend him for his time and financial investment in this project but it is not acceptable to tie people in to a dream which seems to be turning into an uncontrolled money pit. My initial understanding was that MDAC2 would be around £300. Now it seems, the cost has risen to £2000 (according to an earlier post)! A venture of this kind should have been properly scoped and costed from the outset with a get-out option should the project go off-track. The deliverables should have been achieved in definable stages so that investors either got what they expected, when expected or could then be given the option to move on to another development stage if they so desired.
So, I guess I am in a trap and to be honest I feel somewhat tricked. I cannot bail-out without losing my investment but there is no way that I can afford to pay for the upgrade. My only option as I see it is to offer my stake, albeit quite small, at half price to someone else. (PM me if interested).
For the past few years, I have only dipped in and out of this forum as it is technically way above my understanding and is cluttered with people’s personal problems and side discussions regarding the merits or otherwise of concepts and project direction. Some months ago I suggested a monthly summary email for us lesser educated folks so that we would not have to wade through the mountains of irrelevant (to me) information but this was dismissed as too much of an overhead.
I fully accept that this is John’s passion and commend him for his time and financial investment in this project but it is not acceptable to tie people in to a dream which seems to be turning into an uncontrolled money pit. My initial understanding was that MDAC2 would be around £300. Now it seems, the cost has risen to £2000 (according to an earlier post)! A venture of this kind should have been properly scoped and costed from the outset with a get-out option should the project go off-track. The deliverables should have been achieved in definable stages so that investors either got what they expected, when expected or could then be given the option to move on to another development stage if they so desired.
So, I guess I am in a trap and to be honest I feel somewhat tricked. I cannot bail-out without losing my investment but there is no way that I can afford to pay for the upgrade. My only option as I see it is to offer my stake, albeit quite small, at half price to someone else. (PM me if interested).
JohnW
pfm member
pdes,
I'm sorry I have no idea where the figure of GBP2000 has come from (someone did mention this amount earlier) - the BASIC MDAC2 including development funding & HQ External PSU will be slightly under GBP1000.
The cost has increased by about GBP200 - GBP250 due to the external HQ PSU.
This is for the BASIC MDAC2 without options (Streamer, updated Front Panel, ADC, Discrete DAC etc.)
The "extra" options can be installed to a "Basic MDAC2" by the owner at anytime in the future (pending availability).
It "upsetting" when someone post erroneous amounts (such as the GBP2K) as its needlessly scares people! but rest assured, the basic MDAC2 will be under GBP1000.
I'm sorry I have no idea where the figure of GBP2000 has come from (someone did mention this amount earlier) - the BASIC MDAC2 including development funding & HQ External PSU will be slightly under GBP1000.
The cost has increased by about GBP200 - GBP250 due to the external HQ PSU.
This is for the BASIC MDAC2 without options (Streamer, updated Front Panel, ADC, Discrete DAC etc.)
The "extra" options can be installed to a "Basic MDAC2" by the owner at anytime in the future (pending availability).
It "upsetting" when someone post erroneous amounts (such as the GBP2K) as its needlessly scares people! but rest assured, the basic MDAC2 will be under GBP1000.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
It's not, but it will be soon
External PSU is not very appealing to be but it could work. I go for the ADC version of mdac2(i scip the other extras) i think i have already paid more than i have to for that. In any case it would be nice to have a table over the new options.
I have paid a total of 900£ in just dev fees plus 270£ for salvaged mdac(silver).
Also getting the fdac later is an option but just having the mdac2 may be enough for me.
I have paid a total of 900£ in just dev fees plus 270£ for salvaged mdac(silver).
Also getting the fdac later is an option but just having the mdac2 may be enough for me.
JohnW
pfm member
pdes,
I'm sorry, its very much my fault - I need to update the dare I say "website" with MDAC2 details - unfortunately I have a overseas trip pending related to the MDAC2 streamer, once we return I'l work on updating the MDAC2 details.
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