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Linn Ittok LVII v RB300

3. ittoks are pricey thesedays/ too much for me and the old lp12. I was thinking along the lines of a mission 774 (the good one) or a roksan nima(but prob out of budget even this).. ie v good arms between a 'rb300/akito 1' price, and the ittok.

personally I'd not be shy of an akito 2 if I were you: the rb300 is detailed, but a bit plain sounding compared the akito which would match the lp12 v well, is 'faster' and more involving.
 
some carts sound more at home on a rega and some on an ittok.

don't forget second hand roksan tabriz arms for a ittock sounding arm with better bass and tweakability ....
 
The Captain said:
personally I'd not be shy of an akito 2 if I were you:
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Me neither. I didn't intend to 'dis' the arm from an SQ POV, especially since I don't think I've ever heard one.
I just found it hard to swallow at the time of introduction. They stopped the Ittok and then touted the Akito 2 as better, on the basis of a paint job and allegedly superior bearings, and a price hike from around £160 to, IIRC, over £500. That's £340 for a couple of bearings and a spot of paint! Struck me as more a case of pricing to fit a prescribed hierarchy than anything related to cost or quality.

Mull
 
Mullardman said:
Me neither. I didn't intend to 'dis' the arm from an SQ POV, especially since I don't think I've ever heard one.
I just found it hard to swallow at the time of introduction. They stopped the Ittok and then touted the Akito 2 as better, on the basis of a paint job and allegedly superior bearings, and a price hike from around £160 to, IIRC, over £500. That's £340 for a couple of bearings and a spot of paint! Struck me as more a case of pricing to fit a prescribed hierarchy than anything related to cost or quality.

Mull
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Did they not also move production to Scotland for the MKII Akito?

Andrew
 
I had the interesting experience of being told that the, at the time new, kustone base stands made the Keilidh speakers sound so good that the dealer had to take them off for fear of not being able to sell any more Kabers. Then heard the same line from another dealer. Bunch of lying ar@es or is this Linn's training showing through, your guess is as good as mine
 
flatpopely said:
Did they not also move production to Scotland for the MKII Akito?

Andrew
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yes indeed- its an altogether better beastie than the 1 afaict.

i must say i'd like to hear how a nima or tabriz whichever costs less, sounds in comparison to my akito 1.

anyone know the going rate for these roksan's s/h?
 
Mullardman said:
Me neither. I didn't intend to 'dis' the arm from an SQ POV, especially since I don't think I've ever heard one.
I just found it hard to swallow at the time of introduction. They stopped the Ittok and then touted the Akito 2 as better, on the basis of a paint job and allegedly superior bearings, and a price hike from around £160 to, IIRC, over £500. That's £340 for a couple of bearings and a spot of paint! Struck me as more a case of pricing to fit a prescribed hierarchy than anything related to cost or quality.

Mull
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Was the Akito really that cheap when it came out? My Basik Plus cost £130 (or was it £120?) when I bought it with my LP12 in 1987/8.
 
Nik said:
anyone know the going rate for these roksan's s/h?
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A Tabriz went for just under £150.00 last week on eBay. Not sure if you can use a Rega arm board though (as you would for a Nima) when installing onto LP12.
 
Nik said:
Was the Akito really that cheap when it came out? My Basik Plus cost £130 (or was it £120?) when I bought it with my LP12 in 1987/8.
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I purchased an Akito from Congleton Hi Fi around 1993-4. I'm pretty certain it was £169 or something close. I'll try to dig out the receipt.
 
I have experience of the RB300 and own an Ittok. Never having heard them side by side nor in similar context, it's hard for me to, directly, comment on their relative merits.

However, I do think the Rega arm is brilliant; simply made, quality product, at a bargain price. The one-piece casting is genius; I wonder if even Roy Gandy expected to sell as many as he has. A bit of tweaking can take it to even higher levels of performance.

The Ittok, on the other hand, is different; a much higher quality of finish and material. It is clearly a more expensive product. People used to use the term "camera finish"; the Ittok has it in spades (especially in black). 400+ for a good example; I think it's worth it!

By the way, mine has actually been in storage for 10 years. Changed it for an Alphason HR-100S, another excellent arm. I am now on an SME IV and while SME always receive laudits for their finish I think the Ittok is right up there.

I don't really get the significance of the made in Japan or Scotland issue; fine if you're scottish and you want to support home industry but the Ittok was Made in Japan in the best possible sense.
 
halvis said:
A Tabriz went for just under £150.00 last week on eBay. Not sure if you can use a Rega arm board though (as you would for a Nima) when installing onto LP12.
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According to VinylEngine's database, all Roksan arms have the same geometry and mounting hole size.
 
The Akito mk1 was around £175 IIRC when it forst appeared and I believe the Ittok LV III started at around £599 and finished up at £699 if I'm not mistaken (things from this company were shooting up in price each year I recall, as the Axis nearly doubled in price in around five years).

The Akito mk2 has been claimed to be as good as an ORIGINAL Ittok, that's the first, thin pillar version, but I'll tell you one thing (all you Ittok owners know what I'm going to say ;)), IN NO WAY does the Akito in ANY version feel like a precision instrument, whereas the vast majority of well cared for Ittoks out there do.........

Given the choice between a used mk2 Akito or original thin pillared Ittok, I'd take the latter every time and get it fettled by Audio Origami...
 
DSJR said:
The Akito mk1 was around £175 IIRC when it forst appeared and I believe the Ittok LV III started at around £599 and finished up at £699 if I'm not mistaken (things from this company were shooting up in price each year I recall, as the Axis nearly doubled in price in around five years).

The Akito mk2 has been claimed to be as good as an ORIGINAL Ittok, that's the first, thin pillar version, but I'll tell you one thing (all you Ittok owners know what I'm going to say ;)), IN NO WAY does the Akito in ANY version feel like a precision instrument, whereas the vast majority of well cared for Ittoks out there do.........

Given the choice between a used mk2 Akito or original thin pillared Ittok, I'd take the latter every time and get it fettled by Audio Origami...
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Thanks. I'm surprised the Akito 1's price was so close to the Basik Plus's, which makes the price of the Mk 2 even harder to swallow.

Yes, build/finish of the Ittok was as good as anything.

I'll just mention here that whatever the virtues of the RB300, the ancillary bits and the finish always looked cheap. You could see where the corners were cut.
 
that's what you need to pay for the real thing! whichever version - properly cared for - ttok's are superb arms.

rega's seem to me to be inferior copies - poorer materials and awful arm wiring.

maybe they can take some advantage from lightness and improved friction/bearing efficiency, but in terms of running an lp-12 to fullest potential, so what - light arms won't work anyway!!
 
skyebridge said:
that's what you need to pay for the real thing! whichever version - properly cared for - ttok's are superb arms.

rega's seem to me to be inferior copies - poorer materials and awful arm wiring.

maybe they can take some advantage from lightness and improved friction/bearing efficiency, but in terms of running an lp-12 to fullest potential, so what - light arms won't work anyway!!
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I don't see how they are copies. Different in every way: different geometry, cast one-piece vs assembled, magnetic bias vs spring, third cartridge bolt at opposite end of headshell, large single nut fixing vs 3 bolts, and so on.

What puzzled me was that it took so long to make upmarket versions of the RB300 when people were obviously willing to pay for better wiring and finish. Of course, this created a whole RB-based arm modifying industry on a scale never seen with SME, Linn, etc. :D
 
Thanks all! This thread seems to have developed a life of its own

and "I didn't expect the Spanish inquisition!......."

P.S. I am exploring short-medium term options to 'mod' the RB300 (or buy an RB250/251 - modified) I have a Tecnoweight on its way to me and am considering buying a modified 251 from Audio Origami. In the longer term I may look to trade in the LP12 for a newer version perhaps with an EKOS if funds permit......

Thanks again!
 
Bagga said:
Thanks all! This thread seems to have developed a life of its own

and "I didn't expect the Spanish inquisition!......."

P.S. I am exploring short-medium term options to 'mod' the RB300 (or buy an RB250/251 - modified) I have a Tecnoweight on its way to me and am considering buying a modified 251 from Audio Origami. In the longer term I may look to trade in the LP12 for a newer version perhaps with an EKOS if funds permit......

Thanks again!
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I've got an RB250 on a Linn LP12. The arm has been structurally modded by Origin Live and rewired by Incognito.

In terms of sound reproduction, it is miles on from the Linn Basik which was originally on the deck.

The only annoying thing is the arm is held onto the Linn toneboard by a large, single ring.

Even if you do this up tightly, the arm can still be moved a little.

This makes me think that although sonically the OL modded RB250 is a great arm, I might replace it with an Ittok, and put it on a Technics 1210 deck.

Jack
 
I have direct experience of both these arms although not on an LP12 as I have never owned one. I do restore Thorens TD125s though and have used both arms in this application (which should ultimately be very similar to an LP12). The RB300 is much better sounding and cartridges seem to track better on it than the Ittok. IMO the one-piece construction of the RB300 is the reason for the superior performance. It is very important to shim (shims available on Ebay) the VTA very accurately (which is a bit of a PITA, but essential) and don't tighten the nut too much as this spoils the sound. I set the VTA slightly lower than parallel at the bearing and a bit of BluTack arround the threads UNDERNEATH the armboard helps stop the arm moving once the nut is nipped up. If set up correctly, the RB300 is a top arm despite its price point. The lack of integral VTA adjustment has definite sonic benefits in this case.
 
I hope some of your mid 80's grant was also put to good use in the Limit (wednesdays) and the Fat Cat (anytime).
 
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