Leben CS300 vs Almarro 318b

[WillietheSquid]

My experience is with DMT15 MKII monitors ... and with Manley modified studio monitors. The Manley x-over requires a very, very powerful amplifier because it sucks so many watts to achieve it's monitoring aims.

IMO, other posters have it right ... those 'big' Tannoy drivers require powerful, quick voltage swings with adequate damping to control properly. That means solid state or very large and powerful valve amps. Most very large valve amps are not well enough regulated to keep a super clean audio signal. Small push-pull and single ended designs sound musical ... but unless they have moster power supplies (out of proportion) to their modest output, they enjoy only modest drive. Life is full of compromises.

When I purchased my Tannoys, I began with little single ended 2a3 amps, then push-pull 300B, then smaller Naim amps, then a Naim 250. I only became truly pleased with the overall presentation when I placed the Avondale stereo amp into the system. It's been there 6 or 7 years now.

I bring a tube amp into the system every couple of years or so to compare ... but I quickly move back to the Avondale.

I've lived with a variety of Naim amps ... but nothing 'better' than an older 250. My favorite model is the 140. However, none of the Naim amps I've listened to have the 'color' and tonality of the Avondale. It's this combination in the Avondale that has kept me fast. (In fact, no other ss amp that I've been acquainted with preserves source color and tone like the Avondale amp.)

If your heart is set on the fine amps you mention, I suspect you're just going to have to take a leap. The amp / speaker interface is the trickiest in the audio chain, IMO. Theory is all well and good ... but most of us with years of silly experience have found combinations that defy all theory.

So, stick with what you love as long as you can ... and hope the urge to upgrade or change remains way off in the future. So nice to enjoy music that way.

WTS

 

[Kt77]

You need to get that mains switch looked at

Good one, S-Man.

Will do.

 

[S-Man]

110V only gives you a tickle!

 

[Kt77]

Not heard the Leben but can confidently say that the Almarro is within the top three amps I have heard in my quarter of a century hifi obsession. It has beaten many solid state and valve comers and is the amp that I have stayed with.

With an " Emphasis " on top three, can I get an Amen.

At least you were wise enough to keep your - on the other hand, I slept my ass off on letting mine get way. Lesson learnt " Put down the damn audio magazines ", as they're merely distractions.

If it sounds right/correct and isn't broken?, then sit your ass down and listen.

Hash usage of words - but I'm just trying to get my point across - we can spend our entire life's seeking perfection not knowing it doesn't exist.

As, the wife puts it " Learn to listen - Learn to be content ".

Be well,
scar

 

[Pani]

Thanks again.

Oscar, how do you compare the Kalypso and Almarro to the likes of LM audio ? I thought you would suggest me the LM but this time you have a completely new brand to suggest. Can you please describe its sonics in general and also its retail price. I went to their website. They have too many models to choose from and it became difficult to choose one over the other. They do say in their website though that their amps can drive more difficult loads than typical tube amps.

I dont know whether others agree here, Naim has got some very important fundamentals of music reproduction very right, as mentioned earlier, tempo and flow of music along with impeccable timing is its forte. Do we really have to compromise on this aspect of music reproduction to enter the tube world ? For example when I listen to amps from brands like Octave, Unison Research or Audio Research, I clearly miss the tempo and flow of music that I hear on the Naim. For that matter many/most solid state amps also miss this flow thing. Any thoughts on this ?

 

[Kt77]

Thanks again.

Oscar, how do you compare the Kalypso and Almarro to the likes of LM audio ? I thought you would suggest me the LM but this time you have a completely new brand to suggest. Can you please describe its sonics in general and also its retail price. I went to their website. They have too many models to choose from and it became difficult to choose one over the other. They do say in their website though that their amps can drive more difficult loads than typical tube amps.

I dont know whether others agree here, Naim has got some very important fundamentals of music reproduction very right, as mentioned earlier, tempo and flow of music along with impeccable timing is its forte. Do we really have to compromise on this aspect of music reproduction to enter the tube world ? For example when I listen to amps from brands like Octave, Unison Research or Audio Research, I clearly miss the tempo and flow of music that I hear on the Naim. For that matter many/most solid state amps also miss this flow thing. Any thoughts on this ?

Hi Pani,

I merely thought that you were asking about the Leben C-300X vs the Almarro A318B!, as I see/hear it in the LM Audio camp - depending upon your budget?, you've two options - the one with the EL34's @ $1.695 stateside along with the one that uses 845 power tubes @ $3.500 here.

As many here are becoming more and more familiar with this brand, they're beginning to sell over here extremely well. I would call it a sound that's more akin to Shindo Labs to my ears - it's more on the romantic side compared to said Leben - nicely balanced top to bottom - very warm and textured midrange - bass that is perfectly timed and defined - a very deep as well as spacious soundstage that extends very very well into ones room being the illusion that one is actually present at an actual recording session.

To, me these are the best buys in modern day tube amps - that have a certain beauty and sound all their own - had I been able to go back say just 14 months ago, when I had the funds to buy either - one or the other would be sitting on my amp stand at this very moment.

The only other regret I've is not having hear a paid of the more upscale from mine DeVore Fidelity Gibbon 3's namely the $3.700 version called the Gibbon 3XL's properly - as I first heard them back in November 2009 in a system that consisted of Naim separates and thought to myself - it wasn't worth the extra $1.700, but later in 2010 hearing them through said Leben's and then Shindo Labs............., I came to realize just how nice they seriously were and in fact are the only speakers that I'd live the rest of my days with - no looking over my shoulders thinking " What If? ".

Naim, as mentioned does do things to music that I'd call a means of bending notes unlike anything I've ever heard in my 30 in this hobby - yes it allows notes to flow more freely then most as well offer a means of hearing instruments as they are seperate individual strands with a focus on actual musicians frozen into their positions across ones listening area - that I've always found to be quite unique/different in itself.

But - Pani, a properly built/designed tube integrated - is like taking this space thing to a whole different level in itself. It just sounds more - how's the best way to word it?................., " REAL ".

In so much as I'm able to tell that certain guys in the group forgot to shower before the recording session took place - or smell Sade's perfume.

They allow your imagination to run wild - the sound washes over you in a rich warm soothing manner that relaxes the mind/spirit and reaching into your very essence and makes the trouble in the world all but disappear.

It's more akin to having tgst prefect woman at your side - that you know will always be there through the good - bad and slightly indifferent times - it's more about a sense of reassuring one that there are living - breathing human beings standing between or slightly outside of your speakers singing/playing just for your pleasure.

It's about balance - it's about perception - it's about no looking back.

These are my heartfelt views - my truth as I hear/see it.
And for me I've found my way home and don't ever intend on being lead astray ever again - tubes have that certain way of making us wake up and pay attention to what we're missing in the vital means of having reproduced music presented into our homes/lives.

It allows us to dream that much deeper into a state of musical bliss that no solid state amp can approach - and that the Japanese lead us astray with the introduction of solid state in the early 60's, and some haven't found their ways out of the darkness since.

Tubes are magical in the manner in which they merely speaks to ones soul. And once felt/heard properly..............., one would be lying to themselves if they say that they weren't moved.

Yet, I'm an old fool - but I still have a sense of purpose in letting those new to this hobby - that they all have sound options - it's just a matter of trusting ones on ears/senses/heart and judge accordingly to what moves/speaks to you - not your friends - but you. Is what matters at the end of the day, and before one is called home to meet one creator.

Live life - and don't settle.

Regards,
scar

 

[Pani]

Hi Pani,

I merely thought that you were asking about the Leben C-300X vs the Almarro A318B!, as I see/hear it in the LM Audio camp - depending upon your budget?, you've two options - the one with the EL34's @ $1.695 stateside along with the one that uses 845 power tubes @ $3.500 here.

As many here are becoming more and more familiar with this brand, they're beginning to sell over here extremely well. I would call it a sound that's more akin to Shindo Labs to my ears - it's more on the romantic side compared to said Leben - nicely balanced top to bottom - very warm and textured midrange - bass that is perfectly timed and defined - a very deep as well as spacious soundstage that extends very very well into ones room being the illusion that one is actually present at an actual recording session.

To, me these are the best buys in modern day tube amps - that have a certain beauty and sound all their own - had I been able to go back say just 14 months ago, when I had the funds to buy either - one or the other would be sitting on my amp stand at this very moment.

Oscar, thanks for the wonderful post. I am a bit confused with your above statement. Are you talking about LM Audio or CR Developments amps in the above passage ? Do you consider the Almarro to be in the same league ?

 

[Kt77]

Oscar, thanks for the wonderful post. I am a bit confused with your above statement. Are you talking about LM Audio or CR Developments amps in the above passage ? Do you consider the Almarro to be in the same league ?

Pani,

I love/adore/admire the CR Development as the person I purchased it from back in September last year, wrote me 4 days ago saying how much he loved it compared to his $12.000 or so MasterSound 845 Integrated, and felt it was 85% of its sound at a fourth of its cost and went on to say that it sound better then anything he has heard up to $5.000 or slightly higher.

There's just a sound to EL84 tube based amps that to my mind merely has a certain " Correctness " about the way they present notes.

Yet, as I've heard both Line Magnetic Audio amps ( P-P ) and have owned the A318B ( SET ), I can say in all honesty you'd be more then happy with either - but take into account with the A318B you're using a single 6S_7 types as drivers, which mean that in the long run you're spending less to retube it - of you concentrated on buying matched pairs of each type - which mean you'd then focus upon pursuing say 5-8 pairs of said driver tubes and be set for some years.

Whereas with the LM Audio amps - you're buying up a hell of a lot of both power tubes as well as driver tubes every 12 - 18 months depending on use of course.

It's just knowing that in advance that they require said tubes as a means of feeding them properly - but I've already done the legwork on both in regards to the best sounding/made tubes as I'm on an ongoing tube quest as I type this - so I'm more inclinded to buy those rare as hell Cossor / Mullard GZ-37's while others are looking to buy current production tubes because of budget restrains.

I find the tubes that function/sound best in my system to my ears and normally hoard them at between 8-12 pairs for the driver tubes and between 6-8 quads of power tubes within a years time - as we are always in need of back-ups once they go bad - and there's nothing worse then having tubes die on you during a listening session without having to order more and wait 3-8 days to receive them.

I'd say from a logical standpoint - the A318B would in fact be a more practical investment as you're spending less on the tubes in the long run, and it is an actual SET integrated to begin with - but you would have to ask yourself if 18 w/pc enough to drive your speakers?. Whereas on the other hand the LM Audio EL34 puts out 33 w/pc and their 845 stablemate puts out 22 w/pc.

Going with either - would I think have you SET ( pun intended ) for life.

But in the end - both are more then worthy options and then some.

Just the fact as I see/hear it.

Peace,
scar

 

[wacko]

I believe CR Developments are no longer in business ?

 

[Kt77]

Oscar, thanks for the wonderful post. I am a bit confused with your above statement. Are you talking about LM Audio or CR Developments amps in the above passage ? Do you consider the Almarro to be in the same league ?

Pani,

I'm referring to both the LM Audio based amps at the lower end of their price range as well as the A318B. And quite honesty it's nothing more then a coin toss - as you'd be happy with either for years and years and years to come - especially if you put down the audio magazines - stop going to hear new toys of the month and simply listen to the music - noticed I've said your music - not components.

The lost art of listening to said music - is what causes so many of us to lose sight of where our priorities should be - on ones music collection as opposed to the endless search for perfection when in fact it doesn't exist.

I'd live quite happily with either and never ever be swayed away from what each brings to the table - in slightly different ways of course - but both translate the meaning behind the messages/notes better then many more costly components which one could waste both their time and money on.

I say live life - go 4 it.

Regards,
scar

 

[Kt77]

I believe CR Developments are no longer in business ?

Hi Wacko,

They aren't - as some music lovers simply missed out on the wares of a remarkable company that was more appreciated outside of England - they Canadian - Italian and Japanese were very very award of them and pursued them as they are more akin to investing in items that actually play music/notes instead of trying to be seen/heard, as there is a big different you should be aware of.

Case in point - try looking at what wealthy Asian music lovers own - system wise, they tend to have always remained interested in tubes while others were being pushed onto solid state - they love and adore Tannoy's - LS 3/5A's - Quad ESL57's mainly because they're into hearing the human voice in its purest form - where others are most impressed with cannon shots and rumbling trains and other crap assed sound effects as opposed to actually focusing their attention into any given recording itself - they listen to music - while many of us ate merely listening to our components and can admit it to ourselves.

The messages reside with the music itself - not the freaking hardware - and as always some did it better then others - think about it for a moment to understand my madness.

Where are the amps from Radford - Beard - original Quad - Pye - Marantz - Fisher - McIntosh along with a few other often forgotten and under appreciated brands from England as well as the states? - hint " setting in some crowded room in Japan - Singapore - HK and being cherished for what the were/are - Musical.

Old School and all - some of the vintage gear sound wise hasn't been able to be repeated with this newer shit that doesn't do anthing other then distract listeners from the truth - we freaking lost our way.

Period.

Cheers,
scar

 

[paskinn]

Talking of 'old school'. I use 1930s Voigt domestic corner horns (with modern drivers) and they murder modern box speakers..and stuff like the 57s, which are great and flawed at the same time. There has been no real progress in sound reproduction for many years. Modern commerce drove out quality in return for ever smaller boxes.

 

[darrylfunk]

I believe CR Developments are no longer in business ?

i'm not surprised they were lousy amplifiers early on....really unreliable and poor on basic specifications......hard to deal with and i really wanted to like em i used to live near their home in southend and was friends with a guy that worked there.... terrible amplifiers. i remember someone claiming very recently that they were designed by terry bateman of rega but i think that maybe a bit of a confused internet chines whisper.

nice to see now some people regard them as classics....

 

[GT]

i'm not surprised they were lousy amplifiers....really unreliable and poor on basic specifications......hard to deal with and i really wanted to like em i used to live near their home in southend and was friends with a guy that worked there.... terrible amplifiers. i remember someone claiming very recently that they were designed by terry bateman of rega but i think that maybe a bit of a confused internet chines whisper.

nice to see now some people regard them as classics....

They were average at best. I believe CR is still around as their main line of work was manufacturing power supplies and toroidal transformers. I repaired a few of these in the 1990s - they used toroidal output transformers!!! Enough said...

 

[Pani]

Hi Wacko,

They aren't - as some music lovers simply missed out on the wares of a remarkable company that was more appreciated outside of England - they Canadian - Italian and Japanese were very very award of them and pursued them as they are more akin to investing in items that actually play music/notes instead of trying to be seen/heard, as there is a big different you should be aware of.

Case in point - try looking at what wealthy Asian music lovers own - system wise, they tend to have always remained interested in tubes while others were being pushed onto solid state - they love and adore Tannoy's - LS 3/5A's - Quad ESL57's mainly because they're into hearing the human voice in its purest form - where others are most impressed with cannon shots and rumbling trains and other crap assed sound effects as opposed to actually focusing their attention into any given recording itself - they listen to music - while many of us ate merely listening to our components and can admit it to ourselves.

The messages reside with the music itself - not the freaking hardware - and as always some did it better then others - think about it for a moment to understand my madness.

Where are the amps from Radford - Beard - original Quad - Pye - Marantz - Fisher - McIntosh along with a few other often forgotten and under appreciated brands from England as well as the states? - hint " setting in some crowded room in Japan - Singapore - HK and being cherished for what the were/are - Musical.

Old School and all - some of the vintage gear sound wise hasn't been able to be repeated with this newer shit that doesn't do anthing other then distract listeners from the truth - we freaking lost our way.

Period.

Cheers,
scar

Nice one Oscar

BTW, my intention to buy a tube amp is not because I want to try something different from Naim. I am still very much in love with Naim and my wet dream amplification is still a 52/supercap/NAP300 combination. To me this is where my solid state amplifier run would end (I know there is 500 series but I wont go that far). But at the moment I dont have the budget to go in that direction. I want to keep it under 1.5k GBP yet have some fun. If in the end I become all dyed in wool tube guy, thats fun too

 

[darrylfunk]

They were average at best. I believe CR is still around as their main line of work was manufacturing power supplies and toroidal transformers. I repaired a few of these in the 1990s - they used toroidal output transformers!!! Enough said...

well you know a ton more about valve amps than me....we had terrible problems with failures and poor performance.

pretty though....good no.

 

[bourney]

I had a Romulus, sounded fine to my ears. I know nothing about the technical side but it was no worse than the Leben cs300 I also have. It had a beautiful top end but lacked a nadge of depth in the bass - almost like a sugden A21a's bottom end, not deep but certainly energetic enough.
My Leben is taught and has an up and at 'em sound, very sparky but still has that rounded richness with voices as long as you use it within its comfort zone and with the right speakers. I have heard it sound hard and aggressive when poorly matched - mine did not sound happy with Snell Ks for example but sounds mighty fine with AN-Js. And the Leben is lovely to use. The switches and volume knob etc just snap into position and it just feels well put together and tidy. Great little amp.

I've been using an onix OA21 for a few days which is a nice little amp and I was starting to think 'I could live with this' , i dropped the Leben back in yesterday and wow...not a subtle difference. The Leben makes everything hang together so much better and notably more transparent sounding.

 

[Kt77]

Nice one Oscar

BTW, my intention to buy a tube amp is not because I want to try something different from Naim. I am still very much in love with Naim and my wet dream amplification is still a 52/supercap/NAP300 combination. To me this is where my solid state amplifier run would end (I know there is 500 series but I wont go that far). But at the moment I dont have the budget to go in that direction. I want to keep it under 1.5k GBP yet have some fun. If in the end I become all dyed in wool tube guy, thats fun too

Thanks - Pani,

Trust me, I understand that each us have different paths to follow, and that's how it should be, follow your dreams. As mentioned elsewhere - I'd be amongst the first to admit there aren't any rights on wrongs - it's just down to what one wishes to hear that matters.

Some may try to knock this or that brand by saying it's average at best - but should take into account that on those rare ocassions one mans average/trash is another ones joy/treasure.

And besides, in regards to the one size fits all mindset of mine is bigger/better then yours - if that was the case!, then why old why are so many pure music lovers pursuing the likes of Shindo Labs - Kondo and items like Robert Koda Takumi K 10 Preamps/Power Amps as well as Integrated's!.

Because something's they buy with their ears - and merely want the best and not something that they view as average - in this world money talks and BS walks.

Individuality is about free will - is it not!. I hear what - I hear.

And maybe it's average at best, yet compared to what's available to me here in the states price wise and sound, but I'm digging it.

Different system - different ears and a different set of priorities.

Pani, you will know which path to take - it's just a matter of trusting in your senses - and just because some components cost more, doesn't mean they're better - in some cases merely overpriced and/or hyped - as mentioned if someone believes their wares are all that great and music lovers should be able to enjoy them - then why not produce components that mere mortals can afford?, as opposed to trying to please the wealthy!.

Where's your $1.200 - $$2.500 integrateds?. Nuff said indeed.

Enjoy your Quest - Pani.

I've faith in you, as you know what suits you better then any of us ever will.

Peace,
scar

 

[Kt77]

I had a Romulus, sounded fine to my ears. I know nothing about the technical side but it was no worse than the Leben cs300 I also have. It had a beautiful top end but lacked a nadge of depth in the bass - almost like a sugden A21a's bottom end, not deep but certainly energetic enough.
My Leben is taught and has an up and at 'em sound, very sparky but still has that rounded richness with voices as long as you use it within its comfort zone and with the right speakers. I have heard it sound hard and aggressive when poorly matched - mine did not sound happy with Snell Ks for example but sounds mighty fine with AN-Js. And the Leben is lovely to use. The switches and volume knob etc just snap into position and it just feels well put together and tidy. Great little amp.

I've been using an onix OA21 for a few days which is a nice little amp and I was starting to think 'I could live with this' , i dropped the Leben back in yesterday and wow...not a subtle difference. The Leben makes everything hang together so much better and notably more transparent sounding.

Hi bourney,

As always - I much prefer to hear from end users whom have actually owned/heard said components that I've mentioned and/or am curious about. So I'm more likey to view your opinions as valid.

I might have been fortunate in obtaining one of their amps that hasn't caused me any sort of problems - lucky me I'd say.

But, as I'm merely trying to point out to Pani, solid state amps are pleasant and all up to a point that is - but if one is truthfully trying to hear music in its purist most beautiful form - then tubes/valves are the only route to go.

As, I sit back and watch a few of my friends being caught up in this D - Class amplification shit - it shocks me that these guys don't seem to have a clue what they're listening to/for as a means of judging what these devices are doing to the musical signal.

But, I'm not here to pearch - nor teach. In so much as trying to make some aware of their options. Much like you I've owned an Onix OA-21S/Soap 2 from the period of 1990/97 and enjoyed the hell out it during said time.

But once I got " INTO " tubes - well lets just say - the giant has awakened. And there's no going back - I can no longer try to pretend as I once tried with digital.

There was a time, that in order for me to try to fool myself into enjoying CD's, I couldn't have a turntable in the same system - because I realized years ago ( 1992/93 ) that as soon as I played the same track on vinyl - it was a wrap and the cd player and CDs were out of my room within all of one day.

Solid State and Tubes/Valves are the same way with me these days - I was able to enjoy the Nait 2, until I plugged the CR Kalypso in - and the Nait sat in my closet for the last 5 months crying its ass off, until I sold her Friday before last - as I had realized one thing and one thing only - I'm enjoying " Music ".

It's that simple.

Enjoy your Leben CS-300, as well as the OA21 - and know that each should be judged accordingly - but to my ears/senses/heart there's something about the purity of tubes/valves that just dig into my soul a little deeper. And of all people - I know you know what I'm getting at!.

Be well - bourney.
scar

 

[Kt77]

They were average at best. I believe CR is still around as their main line of work was manufacturing power supplies and toroidal transformers. I repaired a few of these in the 1990s - they used toroidal output transformers!!! Enough said...

Enough said, indeed.

But as I'm well aware it goes against traditional standards to use said transformers - but it seem that some are going against the grain as shown here:

http://www.plitron.com/standard-tor...ials-for-plitron-toroidal-audio-transformers/

So, in essence it might be viewed upon as being a cheap method of getting around cost - but isn't there room on this planet for out of the box thinking?, as I see it - just how much have we seriously processed since the 1930's in regards to tube technology vs current day pricing for said same technology?, just curious.

And, why oh why - do some many of the old timers still crave only vintage tube gear?, if the likes of ones designed after say 1989 and afterwards are clearly superior?.

" Check mate. "

Regards from a diverse thinker.
scar