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Leaders Debates #2: Seven of 'em in a row...

Chaps

Yes it was a total waste of time and I doubt if any floating voter was inspired to vote for any of them because it generated into a glorified shouting match. They were all determined to get the last word in and appeared pathetic in the process.

Basically watching that lot squabble and bicker for two hours was like reading a political discussion here, proof that politics makes decent people behave badly.

Regards

Mick
 
I too found it embarrassing in places, but Mick, the public lurvs it. A good slice of them would vote for Adolf Hitler if he was as chummy as Farage.
 
TheDecameron said:
What's happening is you/we are getting a de facto SNP-Labour ( or less likely, Tory ) coalition government. It's called Westminster democracy and it's been around for a very long time, so you should be used to it, though Paul Dacre never seems to have heard if it before. Licking his moist lips when Salmond stepped down in Scotland, failing to recognise the possible next deputy Prime Minister of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
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Nah......Milipead's said there won't be anyone from the SNP in his government.....they won't form a coalition........he did say that didn't he?? But then he said he didn't agree to £30bn of cuts when the other leaders said he did so I guess what he says, and what he thinks he says, are two different things.....aw it's all so confusing.....
 
Sometimes people say things that they later forget. At any rate, I need to draw a bath, pack the hamper and persuade the motor to take me North up Loch Lomond and on over The Rest and Be Thankful. I may detour through Glen Fruin to look at the large black hulled vessels tied up at Gare Loch. I do love a bank holiday weekend.
 
I Lasted about 50 minutes before going to a different room. I would have thought that Clegg had the perfect opportunity to tell it as it is given the Libdems position. A bit of honesty may have reversed his fortunes.
 
I just listened to Gove and Caroline Flint on R4 for the nutshell version of the debate:

Tory Gove: Sturgeon did well; Cameron beat Miliband

Labour Flint: Sturgeon did well; Miliband beat Cameron

There. That saved me a couple of hours.
 
KC Cantiaci said:
What's going on in Scotland? Are you guys going to get full fiscal autonomy? And if you do, does that mean the end of the Barnett formula?
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If we succeed in achieving Full Fiscal Autonomy (as is the SNP's stated current aim) we will be making every person in Scotland over £1,000 worse off (unless oil booms again)
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http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/simple-summary.html
 
Months ago, I saw a veteran Scottish political journalist say that he thought Nicola Sturgeon was one of the best politicians he has seen for years.
I made a mental note, watched her and listened.
Despite a "no" to independence recently (the way I voted) the SNP and her popularity have soared. Alec Salmond was born and raised in this town, but I never trusted him. His mother was really nice though.
Where this leaves the Scottish voter who admires Sturgeon's newly-revealed competence, I do not know.
 
The thing Nicola Sturgeon did rather well was to try and frame an argument away from the archaic and long obsolete Labour/Tory divide. The problem mainstream politics has is, due to the presense of both these dinosaurs, is far too much is framed on the historic dividing lines of capital and labour. When one boils it down the Conservatives still represent the landed gentry, mill owners, financial speculators etc, and the Labour party the unionised semi-skilled worker. Hardly any of us live in or even recognise this world anymore and desperately want to see something new that is relevant to our lives.

I'm not sure I agree with much Nicola Sturgeon (or the other two women of vaguely similar views) said last night, but right or wrong they still managed to make both Cameron and Milliband appear like something from a bygone age. Something quite ridiculous. In his own ugly bigoted way Farage did too, I detest the man and his small-minded blinkered vision for the UK, but it has to be said he battered Cameron on certain things that are traditionally Tory home-ground. The one good thing to come out of last night's debate has to be that mainstream two-party politics is now over. I very much hope never to see another Labour or Conservative majority in my lifetime.
 
But will a continuing split share of the vote between multiple parties as opposed to the usual two be enough to persuade the politicians that a PR system would be more representative of the electorate?
 
Tony L said:
The thing Nicola Sturgeon did rather well was to try and frame an argument away from the archaic and long obsolete Labour/Tory divide. The problem mainstream politics has is, due to the presense of both these dinosaurs, is far too much is framed on the historic dividing lines of capital and labour. When one boils it down the Conservatives still represent the landed gentry, mill owners, financial speculators etc, and the Labour party the unionised semi-skilled worker. Hardly any of us live in or even recognise this world anymore and desperately want to see something new that is relevant to our lives. I'm not sure I agree with much Nicola Sturgeon or the other two women said last night, but right or wrong they still managed to make both Cameron and Milliband appear like something from a bygone age.
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Yes, I agree with that summary. Similarly I think that supporters of each party seem to lump supporters of the other in line with those same historical traits.

In some ways it is good to have people like F'age and Ms Green there just to broaden the debate. Or else we just bat the NHS issue around endlessly and trade stats on the national debt.

The problem with these debates is that no comments get properly scrutinised. So we're really just left with the amount of conviction we see or hear and not a lot of proper meat.

In principle I see our future in simplistic terms. We need to generate income to pay for effective infrastructure; for that we need profits and commerce. Simply taxing ourselves too heavily will mean that wealthy companies and individuals domicile themselves elsewhere in more competitive places. At the end of the day the burden always falls to the middle income earners who have got no where to turn and are the quiet powerhouse of the economy.
 
Tony L said:
The thing Nicola Sturgeon did rather well was to try and frame an argument away from the archaic and long obsolete Labour/Tory divide. The problem mainstream politics has is, due to the presense of both these dinosaurs, is far too much is framed on the historic dividing lines of capital and labour. When one boils it down the Conservatives still represent the landed gentry, mill owners, financial speculators etc, and the Labour party the unionised semi-skilled worker. Hardly any of us live in or even recognise this world anymore and desperately want to see something new that is relevant to our lives.

I'm not sure I agree with much Nicola Sturgeon (or the other two women of vaguely similar views) said last night, but right or wrong they still managed to make both Cameron and Milliband appear like something from a bygone age. Something quite ridiculous. In his own ugly bigoted way Farage did too, I detest the man and his small-minded blinkered vision for the UK, but it has to be said he battered Cameron on certain things that are traditionally Tory home-ground. The one good thing to come out of last night's debate has to be that mainstream two-party politics is now over. I very much hope never to see another Labour or Conservative majority in my lifetime.
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Pretty much agree with that
 
TPA said:
Simply taxing ourselves too heavily will mean that wealthy companies and individuals domicile themselves elsewhere in more competitive places.
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Except all the research (and there has been a lot over the last 30 years) show this and all that stuff about raising taxes reduces revenue is just not true.
 
matthewr said:
Except all the research (and there has been a lot over the last 30 years) show this and all that stuff about raising taxes reduces revenue is just not true.
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I seem to recall a large number of sports people moving out in the 70s (James Hunt etc) and I know that Experian was registered for tax in Dublin, though their corporate offices are based in London.
 
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