How much difference do Speaker Stands make?
- Thread starter Njb
- Start date
JTC
PFM Villager...
On a more serious note, I'm always disappointed in the choices available for shorter, stubbier speaker stands. Far too many are 60cm high, which IMHO only works for fairly small speakers. My Adams sit on filled Atacama 40cm stands, the 'four legs' type, and look about right that way.
ToTo Man
the band not the dog
How does one determine the optimal thickness and durometer for a given application? Presumably then the Atacamas are optimised for a typical weight of standmount speaker?
Lee T
pfm Member
They certainly look identical to mine
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DonQuixote99
pfm Member
My own thought is that it doesn't matter if the stand or suspension is decoupled from the room, if the cabinet vibrations are dampened, a thing I think a massive stand can do.
Looks to me like this installation from the Northward Accoustics portfolio is taking a similar approach, with the speaker cab embeded in a dampening superenclosure.
murphythecat
pfm Member
for example, https://www.amazon.ca/Isolate-Sorbo...9468086&sr=1-6&keywords=Sorbothane+Hemisphere
you can see on this ad:" Durometer: 30 (Shore OO) Supports between 4 lbs (1.81kg) and 7 lbs (3.18kg) per pad"
those are good only for a speaker that weigh between 16lb to 28lbs if you use 4 hemisphere under each speaker.
Each hemisphere will work optimally supporting 5.5lbs each and therefore 4 will be perfect for speakers around 21 lbs.
another example:
https://www.amazon.ca/Isolate-Sorbo...2744713&sr=1-7&keywords=Sorbothane+Hemisphere
Durometer: 30 (Shore OO) Supports between 11 lbs (5.0kg) and 16 lbs (7.26kg) per pad
those are optimal for a speaker that weight between 44lbs and 64lbs and ideally for about 54lbs speakers if you place 4 under a speaker.
for audio, its best to go with duro 30. Very important: the efficieny of sorbothane is dependent on just the right amount of compression. if the sorbothane is not compressed enough or if its too compressed, it will not absorb nearly as well.
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
The stand can't 'dampen' vibration, the speaker continues to vibrate a massy stand may lower the resonant frequency of the vibration.
It is the loudspeaker designer who must ensure that the loudspeaker's enclosure doesn't store energy.
Keith
It is the loudspeaker designer who must ensure that the loudspeaker's enclosure doesn't store energy.
Keith
DonQuixote99
pfm Member
When I touch a tuning fork to a tabletop, it quickly stops vibrating. That's what I mean by 'dampening.'
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
Unfortunately a tuning fork and loudspeaker are not the same thing.
Keith
Keith
murphythecat
pfm Member
exactly, and if the tuning fork was already on a tabletop it couldnt vibrate nearly as much in the first place.
no matter the loudspeaker enclosure, the system will work in elastic reaction if not well decoupled with the stand/floor
yes, any stand wont do much to dampen at least not nearly as much as materiel with high deflection and better softness material like sylomer or sorbothane
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
I really think you should get hold of a tuning fork strike it and place it on various objects heel down.
Not that a tuning fork is anything like a loudspeaker.
Keith.
Not that a tuning fork is anything like a loudspeaker.
Keith.
DonQuixote99
pfm Member
I know the things are very unlike I'm just using the tuning fork to illustarate what I mean by dampening. Vibration killing. People seem to be saying it can't be done. I say it can and should be done, and what we should be discussing is how to do it. If coupling to small amounts of sorbothane works better than coupling to a massive speaker stand, I'm fine with that....
ToTo Man
the band not the dog
Thanks for an excellently detailed answer, I understand now.
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
You can't 'kill' the vibration from a loudspeaker, it vibrates continually that is how it produces sound, energy stored in the cabinet can lead to audible resonance, it is the loudspeakers designer job to make sure that the cabinet does not store energy.
If you isolate/decouple over a wide frequency you can attenuate any vibration from the loudspeaker reaching the floor, which might be a benefit.
Keith
Lee T
pfm Member
So how does a speaker designer go about making sure the cabinet doesn't store energy & moreover, no speaker i have encountered has managed this, all speakers have some sort of resonance once excited by sound waves, some do it better than others, a rap of the knuckle on the side panels tells you more than the top.
I don't think it's the be all & end all to great sound though, a Rega RS1 has quite poor damping of the cabinet, no where near the level of my Castle speakers, yet they sound wonderful, drive units, crossover & design are far more important than any stand or damping system.
I don't think it's the be all & end all to great sound though, a Rega RS1 has quite poor damping of the cabinet, no where near the level of my Castle speakers, yet they sound wonderful, drive units, crossover & design are far more important than any stand or damping system.
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
Everything resonates just depends on the frequency, the important point is that the energy is not stored, BBC designs ,thin wall ,bitumen pads resonate at a lower frequency than say a stiffer cabinet, Wilson,Magico et.
Keith
Keith
DonQuixote99
pfm Member
Gawd, man, you really think I don't know loudspeakers vibrate to produce sound?
As I thought it unnecessary to specify, I am talking about selectively killing vibrations that cause trouble--noise and distortion. This might be audible resonance, it might be out-of-phase reflections interfering with a driver, it might be the cabinet bottom bouncing audibly. Whatever.
And yes you can kill vibrations. Things don't just vibrate forever. Basically, wherever vibrations go, there is heat loss. Get enough of that and your vibration is killed.
That fiber stiff inside speakers--what does it do?
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
I really don't know where to begin, but 'cabinet bottom bouncing audibly ' made me smile.
Keith.
Keith.
Lee T
pfm Member
For every action in nature, there is an equal & opposite reaction... Newton.
The only way to prevent vibration hitting a stand is to use sorbothane, if you couple, the vibration is transmitted to the floor, via the stand, & then back into the stand, then into the speaker, however well damped the stand, over damping speaker cabinets can result in a very dull, lifeless sound, same with room acoustics. Designers usually have the edge when dealing with such matters, best to pick a speaker because you enjoy the sound it makes rather than get bogged down with if it's damped well enough.
Metal stands create subtle changes as with most accessories, they are mostly designed to have a certain effect on a speaker, i prefer a more neutral aproach but i can see why many enjoy the more forward, forced presentation metal stands add to the mix.