James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
Size is one of three variables in Hoffmann's Iron Law, which is reflected in any number of T/S parameter equations to calculate box volume for 'regular' loudspeaker systems.
how big is your woofer, how big is your box, what's your sensitivity
- Thread starter Joe P
- Start date
S-Man
StrivingON
Anyone know how much the Meyer X-10 costs?
This is an intriguiging comment:
"Also, because the
X-800's dual 18-inch drivers are
not tightly controlled by PSAC, they
retain the subtle timbral cues of
traditional subwoofersa subjective
characteristic that many listeners
find familiar and pleasing. "
This is an intriguiging comment:
"Also, because the
X-800's dual 18-inch drivers are
not tightly controlled by PSAC, they
retain the subtle timbral cues of
traditional subwoofersa subjective
characteristic that many listeners
find familiar and pleasing. "
cooky1257
pfm Member
Ah, you mean box volume, I thought you were referring to driver size.....though more are using active eq to beat that particular volume variable nowadays too.
cooky1257
pfm Member
They mean without PSAC they are coloured 'just like traditional subs'-probably leaving room for a future PSAC sub.
cooky1257
pfm Member
By this I take it you mean the sub's group delay peak is sufficiently out of the audible range as to be inaudible or just nice and sorted/inaudible by 35hz? At some freq point you will be crossing over to your mains I'm intrigued how you integrate the two...
S-Man
StrivingON
Yes, every time I reduced the lf rolloff point the bass got tighter and more "correct" sounding - I attribute this to less group delay in the audible range.
I use an LR4 electronic crossover for bass to the main speakers, which can be any 2-way speaker. So it's effectively a semi-active 3-way pair of speakers, about the same overall size as say Linn Ninka's (which I owned for a while in both active and passive modes). I've tried the bass system with a few different speakers, e.g. LS3/5As are surprisingly dynamic when not required to do bass. I've also tried it with ESL57QAs.
merlin
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The X10 costs something like $50K now. Rather wasted in most situations.
I've heard any number of DSP controlled ultra high excursion subwoofers stuffed into tiny sealed cabinets and driven by kilowatts of PWM power. I've never heard one that seemed to integrate with music enough for my tastes.
The Linn unit I use at the moment is one of the very few subs I've ever been able to integrate totally seamlessly on music. I take the micky out of Linn a lot but they got it right with this box.
cooky1257
pfm Member
So, your pal has what appears to be a subwoofer design with a Linkwitz transform applied?
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/filters.htm#9
cooky1257
pfm Member
Interesting response considering how much we've got to work with here and the fact that much of the claims in 114 defy the laws of physics. The LT does achieve some of the benefits you describe ,servo control/feedback may address driver linearity and distortion- up to a point ,the driver needs to be very capable before you start.
So how does it reduce driver distortion by a factor of 10?
merlin
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I'm sure S Man could tell us - but he'd then have to kill us 
In all seriousness, 3 x 7" will equate to using a decent 12" for bass duties - although the narrow baffle will change things somewhat IME.
Fairly decent bass should be expected but to annihilate something like a JL Gotham seems a stretch too far.
In all seriousness, 3 x 7" will equate to using a decent 12" for bass duties - although the narrow baffle will change things somewhat IME.
Fairly decent bass should be expected but to annihilate something like a JL Gotham seems a stretch too far.
S-Man
StrivingON
3 X 7" X 2 speakers is about the same at 2 X 12" or maybe 13".
Baffle step is not an issue at low frequencies.
The cones usually only move about 5mm pk-pk during loud listening sessions.
A bit more reading here (apologies if you have already seen this):
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?67509-System-Philosophy-etc&highlight=philosophy
S-Man
StrivingON
Please state how.
merlin
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In truth, the width of the "baffle" does make a difference regardless of frequency - it's just that the baffle required gets larger and larger.
Using these drive units in (I presume) free space with no reinforcement whatsoever, does seem strange if I might say - you could make them work an awful lot less hard by simply using them in quarter space or eighth space. You are potentially throwing away 18db of potential free gain there.
Do you have any pictures of your setup S Man?
S-Man
StrivingON
Please see the 8th and 9th pics from the bottom in Rob's Pic2 series (the one with the whiteboard waffling on about zero resonance bass, and the one above it):
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=115596&page=3
Not much to see.
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=115596&page=3
Not much to see.
merlin
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Thanks S- Man.
Indeed. There's a lot you could do to improve distortion and extension with those without needing the equalizer. You would also improve the performance in the time domain.
Sadly you'd really need to put the signal through an A/D stage. I know many a person still struggles with that as a concept.
Indeed. There's a lot you could do to improve distortion and extension with those without needing the equalizer. You would also improve the performance in the time domain.
Sadly you'd really need to put the signal through an A/D stage. I know many a person still struggles with that as a concept.
S-Man
StrivingON
The time domain perfomance is inherently excellent as a result of the low corner frequency and the 1st order rolloff of the compensation (my other rolloff is by capacitive coupling in the preamp and is therefore 1st order as well).
It's not an equalizer, it's compensation. Equalisation has problems with parameter shifts with temperature etc this system compensates for the changes.
I have no issues with A/D. My TT sounds pretty much the same digitised to CD as it does "live" (except perhaps at high levels where the TT may suffer a modicum of acoustic feedback).
Aside:
Joe - sorry we trampled all over your "I've got a big'un and it's very sensitive" thread.
It's not an equalizer, it's compensation. Equalisation has problems with parameter shifts with temperature etc this system compensates for the changes.
I have no issues with A/D. My TT sounds pretty much the same digitised to CD as it does "live" (except perhaps at high levels where the TT may suffer a modicum of acoustic feedback).
Aside:
Joe - sorry we trampled all over your "I've got a big'un and it's very sensitive" thread.
merlin
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Stick the bass units firing into the wall and you get a whole new level of timing IME
Simply put, with those narrow baffles just about everything those drive units are producing goes in every direction, smearing transients. One of the reasons boundary loading is simply a technically better way of producing bass IMHO.
You get a more time coherent wavefront, no phase cancellation, and of course you need only a tiny percentage of the power to generate the same levels.
All you have to do to get this is to add a small time delay to the mains via a processor. I'm sure the bass system you are employing is highly impressive at reasonable levels, it just seems a very complex way of going about something to my uneducated brain.
Simply put, with those narrow baffles just about everything those drive units are producing goes in every direction, smearing transients. One of the reasons boundary loading is simply a technically better way of producing bass IMHO.
You get a more time coherent wavefront, no phase cancellation, and of course you need only a tiny percentage of the power to generate the same levels.
All you have to do to get this is to add a small time delay to the mains via a processor. I'm sure the bass system you are employing is highly impressive at reasonable levels, it just seems a very complex way of going about something to my uneducated brain.
S-Man
StrivingON
Sort of like a real instrument playing in my room? Or should I ask the musician to snuggle up to the wall or croutch in the corner?