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Home trials?

R

Rob Sinden

Registered user
As the listening room affects sound quality so much, did you insist on a home trial before buying your hifi?

Do you consider this is important?
 
I did not have to insist... my dealer thinks this is the normal final phase especially for speakers, even ex-dem ones!!!

But then he comes round to install cartridges and check the other TTs while he is at it.
 
I did this some years ago when I replaced a CD player. I took 3 home on the strength of a card swipe and a promise that I would bring back the ones I didn't want, or all 3 if necessary, within a week, and provided they were undamaged it was refund time. I selected one, a Rotel 965 that shaded a very nice Denon 1015 and some Marantz model, and 2 went back. We were all happy.:)

These days I buy SH gear almost exclusively and get a home trial on the basis of buying it and selling it for a similar price if I don't like it.;)
 
stevec67 said:
[...]
These days I buy SH gear almost exclusively and get a home trial on the basis of buying it and selling it for a similar price if I don't like it.;)
Click to expand...

I tend to do this with stuff my usual dealer does not stock or is absent from the French market. I sometimes omit to do the seeling-on bit... or just give the odd thing away...

Must sort out the cables some day
 
no, i just surf audio forums hoping to find a salesman who will tell me what to buy. the more shills he has, the more i trust him.
 
uncl_nigel said:
I sometimes omit to do the seeling-on bit... or just give the odd thing away...
Click to expand...

Indeed yes, and I've been the beneficiary of a very nice arm this way that will be going on my 401 soon, when I can get my finger out. 2 arms, one MM one MC, should be rather nice once I can get it sorted out...:)
 
What part of what I think do you disagree with?
• That room acoustics play a huge part in sound quality and are not addressed by most systems
• That having the option of using the best acoustic space possible to test kit will give every system the best chance of sounding good
• That finding a speaker that works well with Naim electronics to do A/B’s against our electronics is unfair
• That maintaining the signal digitally throughout the electronics adds less colouration
• That implemented correctly, room correction will significantly improve the quality and consistency of audio systems
• That the majority of hifi equipment is sold not because it is the best sounding option but because it’s easy to sell and the most profitable solution available for the dealer
 
I don't necessarily agree with any of your assertions Rob. On the other hand, some, or all, may well be true in a particular situation (or situations).

However, as a dealer (you that is), asking enthusiasts to provide the equipment you hope to use to sell your own product off, is a bit 'rich'.
 
The issue I have is how to do the fairest A/B comparision. If I dont use well known, well regarded kit then the comparisions will be meaningless.
 
YHMOAN

if Naim equipment is so good, where is the worry for owners to compare their gear against the Lyngdorf equipment that Rob sells?
Is the true that Naim owners do not have the confidence to compare, at the end of the day, they will not be swapping out their equipment.............IF IT IS THAT GOOD!!!
But would be an good exercise to show that Naim can stand it's ground against different technology............Where's the harm in that?
 
Rob Sinden said:
What part of what I think do you disagree with?
• That room acoustics play a huge part in sound quality and are not addressed by most systems
• That having the option of using the best acoustic space possible to test kit will give every system the best chance of sounding good
• That finding a speaker that works well with Naim electronics to do A/B’s against our electronics is unfair
• That maintaining the signal digitally throughout the electronics adds less colouration
• That implemented correctly, room correction will significantly improve the quality and consistency of audio systems
• That the majority of hifi equipment is sold not because it is the best sounding option but because it’s easy to sell and the most profitable solution available for the dealer
Click to expand...

1. Room acoustics can play a huge part, even a simpleton can address most issues with minimal effort- ie correct placement of kit. Of course certain kit and room combos will just never work, and nothing will fix that- nothing.

2. If people are going to be using the kit in a good acoustic space then it's a fair test, but otherwise it is likely to lead to dissatisfaction, of course it does open up the option to sell the customer who hears a good demo but has a bad room 'stuff' to fix his room, be it acoustic or electronic fixes- which is what you want.

3. Speakers don't work well or badly with electronics of one brand or another, you either have enough power to drive them and resistance to changes in load variation or you don't. A speaker that sounds crappy on a Nait will likely sound fine on a more powerful Naim amp. Speakers interact far more with the room than the do with the badge on the front of the amp. What one person might consider as working well with NAim, another may consider a screeching mess.

4. If you do nothing to the signal once it is digital and only perform one D-to-A on it then it should be no more coloured than a signal from any other digital source. Whether you thin k it sounds better than an all analogue source is due to your taste- do you think your cd player and amps render analogue redundant? Really?

5. Implemented correctly room correction could improve the sound of rooms that have gross response errors. In an all analogue system however the changes in the sound that D-to-A brings about may well be audible to the die hard analogue user. In my set-up for example it would do nothing other than force me to use an analogue output stage that hasn't been tailored specifically for more tastes and preferences and use a digital clock that is significantly less well implemented that what I currently have in my cd/dac combo.

6. People buy what they like the look of, by and large that's the single largest contributing factor, it is the ultimate barrier to entry, if its ugly you discount it. Only then do you consider the options based on sound, cost, demo availability, being pressed by the man in a tie tapping his foot to the music as he tells you negatives examples of why other things wouldn't suit you so well and pushes upon you how awful the unknown is.

How about these questions.
1.Is the room correction worth the cost of loosing the signature sound of the analogue output stage of my cd/dac/digital source?

2. Am i entirely convinced that the D-to-A in the room correction is implemented anywhere near the level of that in my DAC due to changes in the way the signal is buffered, clocked and presented to the DAc chips.

3. Is it worth buying an unknown set-up to fix a problem that as yet I have not quantified or tried to ameliorate by other more traditional and cheaper methods?

4. Am I really unhappy whit the way my system sounds or are my fears of the unknown simply being preyed upon?
 
Thanks for your response.

1. I think there are 2 main trains of thought with hifi. Some just want their music reproduced with the equipment influencing the sound as little as possible. I’m in this camp and so no – I wouldn’t want to hear the signature sound of your analogue stage as I think it will be influencing what is on the recording. If you like the sound of it that’s fine – you might like valve amps as well but for me although they may sound superb on some music, ultimately as they add to the signal they are not what I am looking for.

2. I’m sure you know a great deal more than me technically about D/A converters etc. All I can say is that I have yet to have anyone say they can hear anything added to the signal when RoomPerfect is used.

3. It would obviously be stupid to buy something that corrects a problem that you weren’t aware of however even the briefest look at acoustics will convince anyone that even after re positioning of your hifi, changes the speakers and tweaking your rooms acoustics, the room will still make significant changes to the sound of a system used within it. My experience is that most people have very little experience of how much their system is being compromised by their rooms acoustics but when they hear the difference a really well designed room makes or RoomPerfect provides they are shocked and love the difference. Whilst this is always going to be an unpopular view point with other manufacturer, retailers and audiophiles who have never found the need or the way to address this problem, the laws of physics mean that the room will always significantly affect sound quality. If people hear RoomPerfect and don’t like it I have no problem but I think striving for the best hifi without paying your rooms acoustics some serious attention is crazy as you will only ever be addressing part of the mix that makes good sound.

4. I’ve never suggested people are unhappy with the sound of their systems, I’ve just pointed out ways at improving their systems that are a bit more scientific than just buying an expensive add on.
 
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