Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
Much bollocks is said about mains.... It affects matters vastly less than people have been lead to believe.
Hifi sounds better , shock.
- Thread starter johnhunt
- Start date
htm_1968
pfm Member
Not sure about this. Replaced our fridge and freezer recently with a new unit. Cue no clicks and pops through the Hi Fi and it all sounds a bit nicer too! I wonder if the cure to the traffo hum on my old Naim kit was really to buy a new fridge/freezer. Maybe I should buy it all back to find out....
johnhunt
pfm Member
I'm sure you are right. Atc products being particularity susceptable to fluctuations in the mains wouldn't endear them to the studio market, but that doesn't help explain why I was up half the night listening to Elliott Smith or why the trichord mains box that my pre plugs into seemed to improve matters...
johnhunt
pfm Member
No not that kind of farm. My lounge is an extension and kind of juts into the garden, and no complaints about noise in the three years I've lived here
Bollocks indeed, however when the pumping station down the road shuts down at night and the sound from the system makes a substantial improvement in quality one does have to wonder.
Mr ED
adamdea
You are not a sound quality evaluation device
About the beneficial effects of lowering ambient noise levels? You have ears not voltmeters attached to your head- why is everyone so obsessed with the notion that fluctuations in their listening experience is a leading indicator of mains quality conditions rather than anything else?
Well, our hearing is not that good that we can hear large pumps in a soundproof building 5 KM down the end of the road, however, the improvement in sound quality of the system certainly can.
Mr ED
whatsnext
Naimless
Because no two pairs of ears are the same people hear the same time and place differently. A simple fact of life that ego centric people (only see the world from their perception) invariably overlook or are unaware of. Listening experience can for most people different through the day for a whole host of reasons. Some, particularly HiFi folks seem blessed with constant hearing behaviour, steady as a rock as unchanging as stone.
Foot Tapper
Enjoy the music, not the format or kit
In many cases this is undoubtedly true, especially when the word "quantum" appears in the technical explanation for how the electrons are rendered into a more serene frame of mind, so flow more willingly into the hifi power supplies.
However, fundamental, solid, proven, electrical engineering is not bollocks. I had a humungous Airlink Transformers balanced power supply (BPS) installed in the radial supply to our music system in order to knock out the DC offset and common mode distortion.
We used to have remarkably good, clean mains. However, 10 years later and over 1,000 new homes, a retail park and business park have been built around us, so our mains is no longer what it used to be. As a result, the mains transformers in every one of our Naim power supplies has gradually started to hum and to do so increasingly loudly.
Installing the BPS stopped all transformer hum and the harshness that was creeping into music. Both CDs and vinyl now sound much clearer, sweeter, less relentless, have better rhythm (Don't know why on this one!), imagery etc. etc.. In short, the BPS has made our music system much more enjoyable, lifelike and engaging to listen to.
So, if you have "bad" mains, then I recommend it but only if professionally installed by someone who is qualified to ensure that it is a safe installation with all the right safety trips etc.
Hope this helps, FT
Lee T
pfm Member
Naim hate mains noise as I have found out with my laptop switch mode power supply so I disagree that mains has very little influence, buzzing through your speakers is particularly unpleasant.Not sure about this. Replaced our fridge and freezer recently with a new unit. Cue no clicks and pops through the Hi Fi and it all sounds a bit nicer too! I wonder if the cure to the traffo hum on my old Naim kit was really to buy a new fridge/freezer. Maybe I should buy it all back to find out....
Lee T
pfm Member
Arkless thinks everything "mains" related when it comes to hifi is bollocks.
Being an engineer you would think this would not be the case, I know a few engineers who completely disagree with his philosophy on mains so I wouldn't take everything he says as gospel on here even though he seems to think he is right on all counts.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
If that had been the case, then I suspect the absence of, er, aroma when it was removed might have caused a degradation in SQ, not an improvement!
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
^ uses a mains regenerator, iirc.
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
The engineer Anthony who built my amp, I'm sure, would certainly disagree with him. My previous valve amp's mains transformer fixings to the chassis used to rattle on occasion. The amp was a Puresound A30 that he modified but did not change the mains transformer. There were two possible explanations for this:
1) Frequent minor tremors, ie. earthquakes
2) Mains fluctuations.
Which is more likely?
It is worth noting that I never heard it rattle here while it was placed on an acrylic stand but it did everywhere else. Since me it has had 4 owners. The latest, who lives only a 10 miles from here, returned it to Anthony in late 2013 to have the mains transformer upgraded to a Sowter and housed in a separate box. The problem is now cured.
darrenyeats
pfm Member
Foot Tapper
Enjoy the music, not the format or kit
Thanks Ragaman. I would also share Arkless' view with respect to most mains "improvers", hence the first line of my post. I also very much like and share darrenyeats' post on sensible steps to ensure a clean mains supply.
However, for people with Naim power supplies, whose transformers hum due to polluted mains, then a BPS has worked a treat for us and for several other people that we know.
James Henriot of Whest fame also uses one for his office supply because he too suffers from dirty mains.
However, it does not address all forms of mains distortion and it does nothing to improve a clean mains supply.
So a BPS works wonders if it's a big one but even then only sometimes. For many others it will be a waste of time and money.
Best regards, FT
However, for people with Naim power supplies, whose transformers hum due to polluted mains, then a BPS has worked a treat for us and for several other people that we know.
James Henriot of Whest fame also uses one for his office supply because he too suffers from dirty mains.
However, it does not address all forms of mains distortion and it does nothing to improve a clean mains supply.
So a BPS works wonders if it's a big one but even then only sometimes. For many others it will be a waste of time and money.
Best regards, FT
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
It's yet another area of hi-fi where just about everything said about it is bollocks (like several other areas!) propagated by people who know nothing about electronics. If people knew more about how things actually work they would understand how they may be affected, or not affected, by external influences. Unfortunately there is a vocal minority whom, inspite of repeatedly saying "I know nothing about electronics BUT...." then go on to talk total tosh. These people apparently receive a "special" education in electronics from hi-fi journalists, sales people and "Steve of the so and so forum" which contains many chapters completely unknown to us Electronic Engineers....
Bad, distorted mains could well affect a turntables synchronous motor adversely if it is powered directly from the mains and not from a "Valhalla type" mains regenerator. This is because that mains waveform is directly driving the AC motor and so the distortion etc on it will cause greater vibration and torque irregularity. On the other hand mains so bad as to cause a transformer to audibly hum and vibrate will likely have no affect on the sound of an amp being powered by said transformer (assume that the audible hum is not bad enough to spoil things!).
Other than the case of an AC motor being powered directly from the mains it's hard to think of much else that's likely to be affected by bad mains... Crude or vintage valve gear which has heaters AC powered from a 6.3V winding on the mains transformer may show an increased noise floor...
All this is referring to standard mains transformer supplies. A switch mode supply will be even less affected in most cases.... but can of course generate copious interference. This is nothing to do with the mains itself.
Bad, distorted mains could well affect a turntables synchronous motor adversely if it is powered directly from the mains and not from a "Valhalla type" mains regenerator. This is because that mains waveform is directly driving the AC motor and so the distortion etc on it will cause greater vibration and torque irregularity. On the other hand mains so bad as to cause a transformer to audibly hum and vibrate will likely have no affect on the sound of an amp being powered by said transformer (assume that the audible hum is not bad enough to spoil things!).
Other than the case of an AC motor being powered directly from the mains it's hard to think of much else that's likely to be affected by bad mains... Crude or vintage valve gear which has heaters AC powered from a 6.3V winding on the mains transformer may show an increased noise floor...
All this is referring to standard mains transformer supplies. A switch mode supply will be even less affected in most cases.... but can of course generate copious interference. This is nothing to do with the mains itself.
Foot Tapper
Enjoy the music, not the format or kit
Thanks Arkless.
I'm content to avoid the "I know nothing about electronics BUT...." brigade too, preferring to listen to colleagues with PhDs and post doc research into electrical transformer design, oh and Naim's R&D dept.
Best regards, FT
I'm content to avoid the "I know nothing about electronics BUT...." brigade too, preferring to listen to colleagues with PhDs and post doc research into electrical transformer design, oh and Naim's R&D dept.
Best regards, FT
needless to say products are improved by listening to them no matter what people read in books. I notice Arkless isn't saying he's listened to all cable and power tweaks and they all sound the same, what he continues to say is that he's got a certificate that proves he's read a book and everyone else is hearing things.