Has anyone bought a product because of a recommendation on ASR?

[Tony L]

Then I noticed the KEF LS50 Meta review and saw that they scored 6.0, which on ASR is still a very commendable rating and not that far from the 6.6 of the Revels. For comparison the Magnepan LRS scores -0.2

Magnepans are very, very good speakers IMO and exactly the sort of speaker this kind of ultra-rigid measurement regime would fail to recognise as such. Any outlier will be the same, e.g. Western Electric cinema horns, VOTT, ESLs, Lowthers, my Lockwoods etc would no doubt get murdered by Amir, but that doesn’t stop them being more desirable and a better long-term investment than much of the stuff his kit and processes define as “good”.

 

[BrendanD]

I didn’t understand a word of it, couldn’t relate to it all. So no, meaningless to me.

 

[Eoin]

I avoid anything that has a recommendation by ASR these days. Before, I tried a few products peddled by the ASR shill that was on here before he was exited and was thoroughly dissatisfied with them (RME dac for instance), so now, I do check ASR to see if it was praised, and it it was, I know I won't like it. Their linear black and white cult views aren't for a world made up of colours.

I now have a system I am over the moon and each day I turn it on I never crave for anything more,...other than maybe the ££ out of it back in my bank account! None of my kit features on ASR, but each element is an important part of the chain.

How’d you find the RME Dac?

 

[Fergus]

How’d you find the RME Dac?

He says he was “thoroughly dissatisfied”!

 

[S-Man]

Magnepans are very, very good speakers IMO and exactly the sort of speaker this kind of ultra-rigid measurement regime would fail to recognise as such. Any outlier will be the same, e.g. Western Electric cinema horns, VOTT, ESLs, Lowthers, my Lockwoods etc would no doubt get murdered by Amir, but that doesn’t stop them being more desirable and a better long-term investment than much of the stuff his kit and processes define as “good”.

My list would be a bit different to yours, but with some overlap. (This made me think of Venn diagrams ).

One of the first "wow" systems I heard was at Graham Fowler's house, in the early Trichord days. He had the largest Maggies, a WTT turntable and early Alectos. I still don't think I've heard Twist in my Sobriety sound as good as it did then!!

 

[sq225917]

I've never bought anything because of an ASR recomendation, but I have bought things based on the measured performance in the reviews, that wasn't available elsewhere. Gustard A18 and Topping pre90. I still use the Gustard, the pre I sold after a couple of years because it sounded identical to my BPBP ( ie sounded like nothing) and I didn't use the remote as much as I thought I would, so it was just cash sat on a shelf.

Detailed measurements just tell you how it performs, not what a bit of gear sounds like. ( if it has audible chatacteristics).

 

[Darren]

Magnepans are very, very good speakers IMO and exactly the sort of speaker this kind of ultra-rigid measurement regime would fail to recognise as such. Any outlier will be the same, e.g. Western Electric cinema horns, VOTT, ESLs, Lowthers, my Lockwoods etc would no doubt get murdered by Amir, but that doesn’t stop them being more desirable and a better long-term investment than much of the stuff his kit and processes define as “good”.

For me loudspeakers are an art form, whereas dacs, at least at the level I can afford, are computers.

 

[camverton]

Magnepans are very, very good speakers IMO and exactly the sort of speaker this kind of ultra-rigid measurement regime would fail to recognise as such. Any outlier will be the same, e.g. Western Electric cinema horns, VOTT, ESLs, Lowthers, my Lockwoods etc would no doubt get murdered by Amir, but that doesn’t stop them being more desirable and a better long-term investment than much of the stuff his kit and processes define as “good”.

How can the klippel measuring device possibly assess a dipole which by its very nature makes use of room reflections. It’s as bad as Toole thinking he could slag off Martin Logan based on his listening comparator where a single speaker was placed without regard for the need for the speaker to be particularly positioned in the room.

I suppose ASR can alert one to problems but when that is the case one has to look carefully at his methodology to see if his findings are valid. As he tests single items sent in by forum members one has to take with a pinch of salt his findings until he starts testing a wider sample. I guess he believes in what he is doing including his belief about upscaling not doing anything which seriously skewed his absurdly sloppy review of Chord’s m scaler.

 

[MVV]

I haven't really paid any attention. But I've just been there to see what they make of the Wiim pro plus and they say it measures very well indeed.
So although I haven't I probably would when it comes to digital stuff like streamers and DACs.
That whole streamers, DAC, usb cables thing is ripe for the foo merchants who I haven't got any time for.

 

[sq225917]

As a commentary.

Obviously diffetent people want different things, mix of features, specs, appearance, ownership experience and all the other. Some people want to be part of a club of like minded individuals and all that stuff.

Some people like flavour of the month, zeitgeist products, just love box swapping, some want fit and forget, and a few want the SOTA in measured fidelity or any mix thereof.

By serving up clear, concise standardised test results using sota measuring gear and procedures I believe ASR is of net benefit to buyers and brands. It's no use to any party who values a story, shiny box, heritage and all that emotional stuff over measured performance, other than by exception.

Like any forum it's a sounding board to the owners viewpoint, and contains the best and worst examples of presenting and supporting that opinion. For me it's hydrogenaudio forum lite, with a little more leeway for discussion but with more data.

I like that it's low on brand voices, marketing copy, other than actual designer viewpoints. But ultimately it's an echo chamber, use it as you see fit, but expect any and all opinions and claims to be challenged. And I very much like that about it.

What I dislike is the owners unwillingness at times to accept when he's bodged a test, or when the test conditions poorly mimic real world use.

 

[colasblue]

Well I came to the ASR table quite late, but one thing that did strike me was that the things I thought sounded good and had historically bought did also get reviewed positively on ASR.

I investigated and subsequently bought a Benchmark DAC3 based on their performance review of it compared to the DAC2 but it wasn't bought only on the strength of their review I did demo it and listen to a few alternatives.

I then had the confidence to buy the Topping D90SE more or less entirely on their and other reviews (both the subjective and objective sorts). There really is no "try before buy" option with that one.

I'm 100% satisfied with it and it is marginally better sounding though less well featured than the much more expensive DAC3 it replaced.

Nobody should be very surprised by that since the DAC3 is now quite an old design and the Topping uses a higher specification chip from the same manufacturer (ie ESS).

One thing I have learned over the last 25 years is that buying expensive "current state of the art" digital kit is probably a mistake since it doesn't seem to stay "state of the art" for very long and is often superseded just a few years later by equipment at a tenth of the price (as was the case with my DVD32R/Chord DAC64 replaced by PC/Benchmark DAC1).

 

[Woodface]

I think it is a useful site for the digital side of things where measurements are probably pretty key. Speakers less so as they are room dependent.

 

[Somafunk]

How can the klippel measuring device possibly assess a dipole which by its very nature makes use of room reflections. It’s as bad as Toole thinking he could slag off Martin Logan based on his listening comparator where a single speaker was placed without regard for the need for the speaker to be particularly positioned in the room.

I suppose ASR can alert one to problems but when that is the case one has to look carefully at his methodology to see if his findings are valid. As he tests single items sent in by forum members one has to take with a pinch of salt his findings until he starts testing a wider sample. I guess he believes in what he is doing including his belief about upscaling not doing anything which seriously skewed his absurdly sloppy review of Chord’s m scaler.

You are taking a specific speaker design with omnidirectional directivity and extrapolating your argument to fit criticism of the klippel, this is a very poor argument against using measurements to assess speakers/speaker design

 

[camverton]

As a commentary.

Obviously diffetent people want different things, mix of features, specs, appearance, ownership experience and all the other. Some people want to be part of a club of like minded individuals and all that stuff.

Some people like flavour of the month, zeitgeist products, just love box swapping, some want fit and forget, and a few want the SOTA in measured fidelity or any mix thereof.

By serving up clear, concise standardised test results using sota measuring gear and procedures I believe ASR is of net benefit to buyers and brands. It's no use to any party who values a story, shiny box, heritage and all that emotional stuff over measured performance, other than by exception.

Like any forum it's a sounding board to the owners viewpoint, and contains the best and worst examples of presenting and supporting that opinion. For me it's hydrogenaudio forum lite, with a little more leeway for discussion but with more data.

I like that it's low on brand voices, marketing copy, other than actual designer viewpoints. But ultimately it's an echo chamber, use it as you see fit, but expect any and all opinions and claims to be challenged. And I very much like that about it.

What I dislike is the owners unwillingness at times to accept when he's bodged a test, or when the test conditions poorly mimic real world use.

A pretty fair appraisal but the real standout is that all opinions and claims are challenged except those of the owner. Woe betide anyone who dares challenge him for the forums rottweilers and sycophants, some keen to ban any challenger, will descend teeth bared and saliva dripping. There are times when his methodology is seriously flawed and not being prepared to discuss that indicates, imho, someone who is stuck in his own mindset and unable to improve the work he does.

It is of concern that he lauds certain chinese makes and has some more traditional makes in his “sights”. He may consider himself as the saviour of the hifi industry but if those traditional makers are pushed out of business what does that leave us with. Their is no guarantee that Chinese makes will be here tomorrow, let alone offering any form of after sales service. As I write this I am aware that sadly my Quad stats were made in China; now I wonder what Amir would make of Quad stats. Anyone know if he’s reviewed a pair?

 

[camverton]

You are taking a specific speaker design with omnidirectional directivity and extrapolating your argument to fit criticism of the klippel, this is a very poor argument against using measurements to assess speakers/speaker design

No, I’m saying that a dipole (magnepans are not omnidirectional) has to be reviewed with reference its design and real world use, and whilst it could be measured with a klippel the results could not be assessed in the same way. I made no comment on the use of the klippel for measuring conventional speakers; it is you who is claiming I did to further your argument/agenda.

 

[Robert]

I don’t think he’s reviewed anything old enough for me to own!

Much that I’ve read reminds me in a way of the Flat Response back in the ‘80s when they’d argue a Linn Basik was better than a Koetsu, NAD3020 better than a Audio Research etc. I guess I’ve only ever read the wilfully click-bait stuff that gets drawn to my attention by others, e.g. I recall he ”proved” a £100 bargain bucket Chinese DAC was better than a Chord Dave.

It would be interesting to read a review of something I actually know, maybe he’s done the Mojo 2 (I’ve got one)? I’ll have a look sometime.

That said my whole mindset and buying decision process is so different there is little overlap. I buy classic kit with a proven reputation, collectability and long-term reliability. I’m just not a new box-opening fan when it comes to hi-fi.

He's reviewed the Mojo 2 and a vintage pair of Rogers LS3/5a - spoiler alert, he quite liked them!

 

[Del monaco]

My LRS speakers are bloody brilliant so the ASR review meant nothing to me really. It did show that it’s not all about measurements though.

 

[Tony L]

He's reviewed the Mojo 2 and a vintage pair of Rogers LS3/5a - spoiler alert, he quite liked them!

He liked LS3/5As? I’d have expected them to get a whole world of hate as IIRC he measures stuff at volumes higher than mini-monitors, let alone vintage ones, comfortably go. The Mojos, 1 or 2 are great IMO. Just such a neat, good sounding and useful thing. Actually sounds great as a digital front end straight into my 1958 Leak TL12 Plus mono amps just using the built on volume control marble things.

 

[Pure_Carbon]

I've got 2 pieces of kit that i really like.
I subsequently found ASR reviews , and he absolutely trashed them.
So, for me, the more he hates them, the better they are !
But it seems he never actually listens, It's all based on the numbers.
That's like me buying a motorbike based on HP, torque , and not actually sitting on it, see if it fits me !

 

[Robert]

My LRS speakers are bloody brilliant so the ASR review meant nothing to me really. It did show that it’s not all about measurements though.

Exactly, a speaker that really does rely on careful set up and room interaction to work and deliver a great subjective result.
I don't think the Klippel is really suited to measuring that type of speaker.

Similarly, you could build a high end phono stage with super low noise and distortion, packed with high tech op amps and fets but screwy RIAA curves giving very obvious tonal problems. Perhaps a few dB hump in the mids and poor warp filter rolling the bass away at 100Hz.
SINAD ranking could place it top of the pack, but you wouldn't want to listen to it!