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Harbeth Monitor 40.1

I've owned Harbeth M40 (not M40.1) for a little over 3 years and love them. They aren't the perfect speaker, but what is for that matter? Anyway, what they do best is suck me into the soul of the music. The midrange is beautifully rendered by the M40 and vocals and instruments are extremely lifelike in presentation.
I owned the small M30 prior to these and actually auditioned the SHL5 and C7 at home before I bought the little M30 so I've had almost every Harbeth speaker in my home at one time or another.

The M40 is in a whole other league in comparison to the other Harbeth's. They present a well defined huge soundstage and instruments sound true to the recording IMO.

I power them with amps no-one has probably heard of, MFA 200D tube monoblocks-140 watts triode/220 watts ultralinear. I've also powered them with an ARC Classic 60 and an Aragon SS 8008BB amplifier.
THe MFA amps are definitely the best amps I've used with them but the other 2 did a respectable job, in fact in the hot summer months I still use the Aragon SS amp since it runs much cooler than 12 KT88's, LOL.

My room is not large by any means, 14 feet by 17 feet so I listen nearfield (obviously) with the speakers pulled out well into the room which allows for very nice soundstage depth.
The dedicated room is well treated with several (ten) broadband bass traps and a couple of RFZ panels. It's an absolute neccesity to treat any room you listen to music in and the large Harbeths's are no exception. The dimensions of my room are not good so without treatment, it would be a complete waste to put these speakers in it.

The size of the M40 in a room this size usually generates a WOW when someone enters the room but they really disappear when music is playing like nothing I've heard. A well mastered recording is presented in full glory and poorly mastered recordings sound like you know what too. I tried to like the smaller monitors but after a while I realized that nothing short of a full range Harbeth would suffice. :)
 
BlueEyes said:
Coda II said:
One of those little things that I'd never thought about but made sense when I finally realised what question to ask, was that Harbeth's primary pro market is for broadcast monitors as opposed to recording studio monitors.
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Very good point. But where do you draw the line to make sure you enjoy the sound but don't lose the vitality of the music and more to the point, pfmembers, where do Harbeth get it right as opposed to the recording studio monitors that provide such an accurate song but not, necessarily, the easiest of listening experiences if you listen for long periods?

Does anyone know anyone with 40.1s near Madchester who will make me a cup of tea whilst I listen to their speakers?? :D

Greg
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I think it's actually worth giving Alan Shaw's explanation in full as it fleshes out some of the ideas:

As discussed before here, monitoring broadcast sound (often live sound as you suggest) is a specific listening environment very different to monitoring in the recording studio for CD production.

If you stepped into the broadcast studio you'd first notice how similar in size it was to your living room at home. Conversely, the recording studio would be bigger, the speakers further away (possibly sunk into the front walls) and the monitoring sound level would be much higher. Once the commercial recording session starts there would be total concentration on the sound and the sound engineer/producer would adjust the mixing desk in virtual silence. Contrast that with the frantic activity in the broadcast studio control room. Many staff each with a role to play who must be able to communicate with each other in calm just slightly raised voices not shouting over the speakers. In addition there would be the constant chit-chat from the studio floor over the talkback system (which must at all times be audible) plus interjections from the director, camera and lighting people, make-up, security, script editor, runners, microphone assistants, writer, legal rep "they can't say that" and so on. It's a completely different work environment and why good broadcast sound people who can produce good sound in such stressful conditions are so highly valued. Some broadcast sound people work occasionally in the calm environment of the recording studio with the luxury of retake after retake. I'm not aware of any recorded sound specialist who has the skillset or nerves to work in broadcast sound.

So, a speaker system that conveys all the detail of the sound when listened to at a moderate level - all that's possible in the broadcast studio environment - is a very special instrument indeed. And by a happy coincidence, suits our home listening needs of good resolution at a moderate level very well indeed.
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And another AS quote from that Harbeth forum thread

the designer cannot design a single universal speaker system that will sound right when played at a mere whisper up to the threshold of pain. The ear is highly non-linear (but highly repeatably non-linear from person to person) and it needs a litttle help from the speaker designer working with, rather than against the ear. We do that at Harbeth as a matter of routine design. Consequenly, if we receive an enquiry from a rock and roll recording studio we politely decline - and refer them to ATC whose products are reportedly durable at high spls
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IME he's over-generalised on studio control room size.

And unless the audio is compressed or otherwise optimised for purpose then 'all the detail of the sound...at a moderate level' is a physical impossibility. He's basically saying that Harbeth speakers, even big ones, can't do dynamics, because they don't need to, because they are oriented towards broadcast monitoring. Which is a bit narrow. What about film sound, where much larger peak to average ratios are common?

Paul
 
Paul Ranson said:
IHe's basically saying that Harbeth speakers, even big ones, can't do dynamics, because they don't need to
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Don't think he is. Although I'd like to know what exactly you mean by "dynamics" if it is more than just LOUD.
 
Yank said:
Imagine then what they'll be like when they're run-in!

What was driving them?
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I suspect Mr. Shaw would scorn you for saying his speakers needed "running-in"

Would love to hear some, but at 8 grand or whatever, it might just be better if I listen to my compact 7s forever.
 
ampman said:
I suspect Mr. Shaw would scorn you for saying his speakers needed "running-in"

Would love to hear some, but at 8 grand or whatever, it might just be better if I listen to my compact 7s forever.
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I've already pointed this out elsewhere in this thread, but these things tend to need repeating. :)
 
Basil said:
I've already pointed this out elsewhere in this thread, but these things tend to need repeating. :)
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As does this quote from Harbeth:
The only component part of a Harbeth loudspeaker that can change as a result of the exercise known as 'burning-in' is the resin-doped cloth suspension that centres the neck of the cone in the magnetic field - sometimes called the 'spider'. Under the microscope, once the resin has been worked, it crazes into millions of small interconnected islands. This process is irreversible and takes only a few hours - or less, with bass heavy music played rather louder than normal. After that, the drive unit can be considered fully aged, and the resonant frequency has settled at its final value and will stay at that value. The ferrofluid used in Harbeth tweeters will become appropriately viscous after a few minutes operation. Neither the coils, resistors, capacitors, cables no any other part of a Harbeth speaker has any short-term ageing mechanism.


cheers
Jason
 
This process is irreversible and takes only a few hours - or less
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You can guarantee this won't happen when the driver is tested before being fitted to the box?

To clarify, Harbeths do not need to be burnt or broken in over an extended period.

Hopefully that will satisfy the pedants.

;)
 
The point AS is trying to make is that the frequency response of the ear varies with SPL (google "equal loudness contours"). So the errors in frequency response of a component may result in it sounding "right" at different SPLs from another component that has different deviations from the ideal frequency response. In other words you might need more or less SPL than "the real thing", and the trade-off he claims to make is for the speakers to sound convincing at lower SPLs.

This is all IMO and based on a fair amount of reading-between-the-lines. What I have noticed in moving to the UK is that the volume at which small Maggies sound "right" is a bit overpowering in our new living room, compared to the rather larger room where we used to live.
 
From perusing this thread, I'm not quite managing to work out an answer to the question; do Harbeth's do loud (when required)? It's not that I listen very loud that often, but I like to have the possibility. I'm considering SHL5's at the moment.
 
If depends on what you mean by "loud." One man's loud is another's molecular deconstruction...and then there's "Mana" loud.
 
I'm not a big fan of loud (despite what my good lady might think!) but the P3ESRs have always delivered the goods when cranked up - much more so than the ealier Harbeth mini-monitors that I've heard.
 
Basil said:
You can guarantee this won't happen when the driver is tested before being fitted to the box?

To clarify, Harbeths do not need to be burnt or broken in over an extended period.

Hopefully that will satisfy the pedants.

;)
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Mine sound the same today as they did when I first tried them, which is a good thing.
 
i would say that with the 25 watt Sugden that i use, the SHL5s are more happy at what i would call a `moderate' level..i would put this at what sounds realistic with unamplified music. i would also say that they like to be a little bit louder to come alive than my old Audionotes. they seem to have a volume band that they sound happiest - this could be more amplifier related but also remember my 7ES's were also like that with my old 35 watt tube amp. luckily the band is the sort of volume i listen at when I listen properly. i have wound them up with cleanly recorded drum and bass and there is no flap or mess but i have to also say that they dont rock out as good as the Audionotes did with louder guitar based music. i do listen quite nearfield tho and i have a feeling that with more space between me and the speakers this could be different.
 
Elephantears said:
From perusing this thread, I'm not quite managing to work out an answer to the question; do Harbeth's do loud (when required)? It's not that I listen very loud that often, but I like to have the possibility. I'm considering SHL5's at the moment.
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I've got all the Harbeths here and (with the exception of the P3ESR) they all do 'loud' within my definition of the word. The M40.1 will do nose bleed volumes but the others will reach uncomfortable levels.

I listen mainly to Rock and Blues music and I like to listen loud. They satisfy me providing the amp is up to the job. A Sugden A21 (for instance) does well but is not really man enough when I want to get down and dirty..:eek:
 
A Sugden A21 (for instance) does well but is not really man enough when I want to get down and dirty..
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Well brunettes are fine man
And blondes are fun
But when it comes to getting the dirty job done

I'll take a red headed woman
A red headed woman
It takes a red headed woman
To get a dirty job done
 
darrylfunk said:
i don't believe that the harbeths will be any less transparent and also it's a myth that most studio monitors are tiring to listen too but broadcast playback monitors are in some way all soft and fluffy on the ears....
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It's certainly a myth that ATC actives are tiring to listen to. The danger is that you can get suckered by them into listening too loud, and this only becomes apparent to you if you have to leave the room...
 
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