Getting an old Bakelite telephone running again.

[Bob McC]

These old GPO 200 series phones are beautiful and highly collectible:

Not mine I'm afraid, but borrowed from http://www.antiquetelephones.co.uk . They have some lovely old phones for sale.

Superb!

Could be made out of Milky Bar chocolate.

 

[Vinny]

Superb!

Could be made out of Milky Bar chocolate.

If it was, it would be safe for years around here................... definitely yawn material..................

A design icon undoubtedly, very pleasing to the eye nonetheless.

 

[linnfomaniac83]

Not so I'm afraid - heating as you suggest is never going to ionise any gas...................................
Heating the electrodes makes them emissive (give off electrons), it ionises nothing. Once the lamp is running the arc/lamp current keeps the electrodes hot, and emissive. More accurate yet, it gets the emitter (a complex barium/calcium oxide/tungstate mixture) on the electrodes, emissive

To be far more precise, conventional fluorescent lamps actually start courtesy of cosmic rays, which is why they don't work (start), unaltered, in mines - too few cosmic rays penetrate far enough.

Using a high V to get discharge lamps to start is very common, even when using other starting aids - within the industry the term "igniter" is far more common that "starter".

I worked in lamp R&D for a little short of 10 years.

Hmmm, flourescent lamp starters I’ve seen are basically a bi-metallic switch used to heat the coils, where is the HV derived from?

 

[Marchbanks]

I need to come round and ring you up.

I have to say I don’t think you’ve quite grasped the concept of phone calls.

 

[Tony L]

These old GPO 200 series phones are beautiful and highly collectible:

Not mine I'm afraid, but borrowed from http://www.antiquetelephones.co.uk . They have some lovely old phones for sale.

I know they are worth less and are less collectable, but I prefer both the 200 and 300 series in boring old black to any of the colours. The 300 is my favourite and I have ordered a plain black one with no ‘Call Exchange’, ‘Bell On/Off’ button or draw as the aesthetic lines are at their sharpest and cleanest that way to my eyes. Just the classic ‘40s-50s bakelite telephone. Should hopefully land this week sometime.

 

[Vinny]

There have been many varieties of starter/igniter over the years but this Osram document covers basics. In the simplest case, the starter, in effect, controls what the ballast does so that the ballast produces a high V pulse.
Some igniter designs will actually produce the pulse, some will include a glow bottle, which produces UV, which in turn will ionise the lamp fill gas (plastics and hard glass, and quartz, are basically transparent to UV, unlike soft glass which is largely opaque to UV).
The very first electronic igniter was built where I used to work, by someone that I worked with and was incredibly simple - it was just a simple jump of logic for anyone interested in the very early days of electronics and which most would not have made as they were not interested in producing high voltage pulses.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=23&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjD1vv-6LTYAhXjCsAKHZf0CI8QFgizAzAW&url=https://www.osram.com/media/resource/hires/334214/technical-guide---starter.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1MRQrmUf8j32cTubJfuh3D

 

[Paul R]

I have a modest PBX sitting in a box in my loft. So I could host conventions for antique telephone enthusiasts, who could come around with the their apparatus and call each other to exchange something.

Old Nortel/STC technology. Perhaps it even works after so long, I expect the custom 'feature' phone that was the object of the exercise doesn't.

Paul

 

[TheDecameron]

Paul, is this how the resistance movement was born?

 

[Paul R]

I'm happy to host illiberal Bakelite enthusiasts too. Feel free to bring your phone. All sockets catered for.

 

[lordsummit]

I have to say I don’t think you’ve quite grasped the concept of phone calls.

Would be a trip down memory lane to hear one ring again...

 

[Tony L]

With a 12 year half life, it should be about 1/16 (6.25%) the brightness as when new - pretty dim

I had a look late last night just before I went to bed and after a minute or two once my eyes had adjusted to the total darkness of the room there is actually still a very, very slight glow remaining. Just enough to make out the circle of the dial and see the black numbers, but obviously nothing like it should be. I suspect the half-life is about right. They were surprisingly bright when new as I recall. I always just assumed the Trimphone had a light in it when I was a kid (surprisingly I never took it apart when my parents weren’t looking). I never realised it was radio-active! It is a unique kind of glow, a shame it can’t be (safely!) restored.

 

[russel]

Mick
No one will be using land lines within 10 years.

Outside of the UK, in dear old Blighty wireless communication will be scrapped and "Brexit Bakelite" will replace plastic.

 

[kennyh]

A timely revival on the thread as I've just bought another old phone and it was nice to see the new posts when I logged on here. Well done with the trim phone Tony, amazed to see they are way more valuable than the early 706's from the 60's. I reckon a chest full of those is as good as Lego lol. Post up some pics when the 332 arrives, mine has the draw but agree the ones which were blanked of do look very tidy. I have a few spares for them too now and am finding my way around them so if you need a lift just shout.They only started to blank off the drawers as people were stuffing phone numbers and note pads in the draw and hampering the bell mechanism.

Anyway my new one arrived on Christmas eve, bought it purely on body condition, a bit like buying a classic car really as I reckon it's the most important bit.

It's what's classed as a 162, the phone that replaced the candle stick. Same body as the 200's but different internals. Mine is missing a few of the internal bits and now don't know whether to source 162 or 232 spares. I got a bell box with it and going the 232 route certainly will make it easier to get it ringing!! I need to pick a brain or two on this one.

 

[kennyh]

Here's the number 25 bell set that will sit under the phone if I want it to ring. Although the 332 does that task anyway.

 

[Tony L]

Liking the 162 and bell box!

Well done with the trim phone Tony, amazed to see they are way more valuable than the early 706's from the 60's. I reckon a chest full of those is as good as Lego lol.

The phone market seems just as odd as any other collector market! I get why the Trimphone is dearer, they were an ‘upgrade’ on the 746 in the sense the rental was higher, so I guess they are correspondingly rarer. All the GPO phones were iconic in their own way, each one up to and including the Trimphone is a design classic IMO. Some colours seem far rarer than others, and for me the surprising thing is the very last ‘Snowdon’ Trimphone range from the early ‘80s seem to be the most desirable with their brighter colours. I find that odd as I’d have expected the 1960s ones to be the most sought after, not ones from after it was starting to look a little dated. Mine is quite interesting in that it has to be about the earliest 722/2 out there, the 71/1 date stamp is actually before some websites acknowledge this variant exists.

What are you using to clean/polish the Bakelite? For the later plastic phones like the 700 Series, Trimphones etc this Greygate stuff really is excellent. I’m amazed how well the Trimphone has come up, aside from a little sunlight fading/yellowing these phones all seem subject to it has come up pretty close to as new. I ended up buying a fully restored 300 Series as much as anything as I couldn’t find a really tidy looking restoration candidate. I enjoy doing this stuff so a shame really!

 

[kennyh]

Morning Tony, the market for them is quite amazing to observe as you say. I only "got in to" this telephone thing a few weeks back but was so pleased with the results of the 332L refurb I decided to do another. Deciding what to buy next was difficult as you have to be careful you are not throwing money away on something that is beyond sensible economic repair, or worse still an Indian "replica"
It is funny though, as people who've visited us during the festive break have all said "get me one" when they've heard it ring

Cleaning? Yes I've bought Greygate too, Greygate No.5 compound designed for the GPO. It is supposed to be the best thing for bakelite I was told and it is good. However I've got various compounds I use on the cars which are also very good. Bakelite is surprisingly forgiving which surprised me, you really can go to town on it with brute force to remove marks and scratches and it will come up great, I'd bet plastic is a bit more awkward to rejuvenate.

As for colours, the none black bakelites do fetch a massive premium, however I reckon once an Ivory phone is marked it is very difficult to get it back in shape, not a problem with the black ones. That is why my hunt for a sensibly priced good condition Ivory model has stalled. Damage to the body is not something I'm interested in, not too fussed about inside condition.

I'll bet your trim phone sounds better to people on the other end of the line than your bakelite. I've been experimenting with various carbon granular mics. but none sound as good as the electronic you can fit. I've stayed with carbon though for originality, as these phones were never as clear as a modern handset.

I need to now pick up some induction coils for this old 162, well rather a transformer for the phone and induction coil for the bell, it will be a gem when working. Still carries its 1935 date stamps too.

As an aside, have you seen some of the green phones at £2000 haha, I wonder if any really sell at that figure?
Enjoy the hobby Tony, I'll certainly be playing around with these telephones whilst the dark nights are here, I just love their history!

All the best too for 2018.

PS, as an aside did you buy your bakelite from a chap called "Mally"?

 

[Tony L]

I'll bet your trim phone sounds better to people on the other end of the line than your bakelite. I've been experimenting with various carbon granular mics. but none sound as good as the electronic you can fit. I've stayed with carbon though for originality, as these phones were never as clear as a modern handset.

Very likely not, the Trimphone is pretty compromised sonically! The 700 Series style mic is actually positioned right up next to the earpiece as it won’t fit anywhere else and relies on a little plastic tube for acoustic transmission. The original mic on mine was either dead or very close to it, so I replaced it with a more modern electronic one (link). I’m always reluctant to modify potentially collectable items, but I’ve retained all the original parts so easy to put back.

PS, as an aside did you buy your bakelite from a chap called "Mally"?

It is this one (link), the restorer does them for the Bletchley Park museum, BBC and elsewhere so I assume knows what they are doing. The thing I didn’t realise when I bought it was this is just a stock ad, not the actual phone I’ve bought, so my scrutinising the pics was a waste of my time. If when it arrives is less than it appears I’ll just hoof it back and try again. For that price I’ll be accepting nothing less than a mint and fully original phone!

Where did you find yours? If I could have found a nice dry uncracked or chipped unrestored example I’d definitely have taken that route as I’m sure I could get a good result and would enjoy doing it. I’ve been looking at local auctions etc for a couple of years now and found nothing at all, and on eBay they don’t go for a lot less than restored and guaranteed ones.

 

[Rug Doc]

I’ve just been stripping the old telephone system out of the house I’ve moved to and had one of these fitted on the wall.

http://www.britishtelephones.com/bell59.htm

Any use or value to anybody?

 

[kennyh]

The one you've bought will obviously be a beauty Tony. I don't like the practice of generic pics on items that are not generic but he'll not send out a duffer, too easy for you to spot.

From looking at the the phone the only 2 comments I'd make are 1) He's machined polished that with a power mop. A practice I see the dealers are doing. It looks great to be honest but I've left my 332 in its original satin finish, I think someone in the past has buffed the 162 though.
2) You have the nice 2 chrome escutcheons around the plungers, that's a nice thing to have, a lot of 332's don't have them. Make sure your phone has the same components as in the pic. You will find your phone base has the recess for the draw too should you decide to fit one.

As for where I got mine, well the 332 had been with a family member for years and was completely untouched, except for the braided chord being replaced by the GPO back in the 60's. I have a new braided chord to suit but with the curly being a genuine part of the phones history have not done it yet. The 162 was bought on Ebay. I touched lucky as he never mentioned bakelite/GPO or 162 in the ad........just old phone lol. I asked him for a full description of body condition and it was as good as he said. Someone has had a tinker inside though hence my need for a couple of bits to get it all working again, but as I say it's the condition that is paramount along with nice date provenance.

I'll be interested to see pics of the inside of your unit when it arrives. I think you'll be very happy with it though!!

 

[kennyh]

Rug Doc, I'd really like that bell set please if possible. Would help me no end in the refurb of the phone.

Many thanks