Gay Nightclub In Florida Attacked By Gunmen.
- Thread starter maxflinn
- Start date
Cloth-Ears
pfm Member
Some Americans advocate going the other way.
i.e. allowing the weapons you choose and allowing open carry.
They would say that if there was open carry of such weapons at the scene the attacker couldn't have succeeded.
i.e. allowing the weapons you choose and allowing open carry.
They would say that if there was open carry of such weapons at the scene the attacker couldn't have succeeded.
Cloth-Ears
pfm Member
Of course one of the problems with this is that once a machine gun fight breaks out, you don't know who started it and who is the who in the ongoing chaos. Once the police arrive, it just gets more complicated. Extra people get hurt because of this.
So its impossible to say, on balance, what would result in fewer casualties.
So its impossible to say, on balance, what would result in fewer casualties.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Banning assault rifles won't take them all out of circulation. But it will help. It will make it harder for people to get their hands on them. Which has to be a good thing.
The BBC are reporting what the shooters wife had to say:
Sitora Yusufiy lived with Mateen for four months in 2009. She said her family "rescued" her from the relationship when they became aware that he was being physically abusive.
He beat her up regularly during their short-lived marriage for trivial things like not doing laundry, she said.
"When he would get in his tempers, he would express hate toward everything. He was mentally unstable and mentally ill: that's the only explanation that I could give."
I wonder if this is a case of someone with severe undiagnosed mental health problems.
This gofundme page in support of the victims has raised over $1million so far. A cheque obviously won't bring loved ones back but I can see how there may be victims and families that will appreciate some financial support at a time like this.
https://www.gofundme.com/PulseVictimsFund
The BBC are reporting what the shooters wife had to say:
Sitora Yusufiy lived with Mateen for four months in 2009. She said her family "rescued" her from the relationship when they became aware that he was being physically abusive.
He beat her up regularly during their short-lived marriage for trivial things like not doing laundry, she said.
"When he would get in his tempers, he would express hate toward everything. He was mentally unstable and mentally ill: that's the only explanation that I could give."
I wonder if this is a case of someone with severe undiagnosed mental health problems.
This gofundme page in support of the victims has raised over $1million so far. A cheque obviously won't bring loved ones back but I can see how there may be victims and families that will appreciate some financial support at a time like this.
https://www.gofundme.com/PulseVictimsFund
maxflinn
pfm Member
Yes and the woman too, both seemed to want to quickly move on from any homophobic aspect of the attack to the ISIS angle which frustrated Owen Jones who IMO, should have been allowed to talk a bit more about what was the biggest ever mass-murder of the LGBT community in US history, and what it might mean to that community.
He was a bit over-emotional too though, which whilst understandable, didn't help.
gassor
There may be more posts after this.
So what was Jones so upset about? It is a hate crime, there are various targets for people who feel an affinity with Isis, everyone agreed about that.
TPA
Trade: Tiger Paw
It beggars belief really, some people seem intent on recreating the wild west.
I agree there are a lot of weapons about, but making it harder must in turn contribute to a reduction in the numbers eventually.
sean99
pfm Member
The point is that an automatic weapon ban would in the long term make it more difficult to obtain one.
It's a rather different proposition having to pay many thousands of pounds to a criminal arms smuggling operation as opposed popping into your local Tesco extra and buying an AR-15 and several hundred rounds all completely above board.
You won't stop every nutcase this way, but you'll stop the majority.
Tony L
Administrator
I found the whole thing quite baffling to be honest. I suspect there was more context beforehand that wasn't in the clip. I never watch Hypnotoad "News" so I've no idea who the presenter was, but Julia Hartley-Brewer is just a low-rent Nigel Farage clone, kind of a volume-limited Katie Hopkins and deserves all the respect such a thing brings. Owen Jones overreacted for sure, whatever the missing stimulus, and I don't understand why, or why he agreed to take Murdoch's money and appear on a right-wing propaganda channel in the first place.
gassor
There may be more posts after this.
On the other hand there may not have been. Maybe he felt he could use the platform to emphasis the antagonism directed at LGBTs in every society and when that didn't come off he was overcome by petulance.
maxflinn
pfm Member
I watched it again and he did act very stroppy, to be fair.
I tend to agree with him though that the other two didn't give the homophobic aspect of it as much time as otherwise might be given to any potential racial motive or whatever, had the victims been all black, or Jewish etc.
I wouldn't have imagined he'd have been on Sky either. Maybe they pay well
cooky1257
pfm Member
The killer didn't just pick any nightclub, he targeted an LGBT night club, in the same way anti semites wouldn't target just any church they'd target a Synagogue.
My initial thought was a Christian fundamentalist was responsible as they are just as likely to share the same anti LGBT attitudes.
My initial thought was a Christian fundamentalist was responsible as they are just as likely to share the same anti LGBT attitudes.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Fifty people got murdered?
Tony L
Administrator
Or just as easily fascist/far-right. One thing all these dictatorial authoritarian extremes, be they religious of secular, have in common is they really don't like The Gays. Small-minded rigid beliefs and homophobia always seem to go hand in hand. Tiny-minded idiots who think they have the right to force their own utter stupidity onto others.
PaulMB
pfm Member
But that's absurd! So the killer would have "open carried," not suspecting he would be stopped and disarmed.
Or are they trying to say that all the people drinking and dancing would have been "open carrying" and would have shot the killer in his tracks?
PaulMB
pfm Member
Another angle might be that the victims were, yes, gays, but also represented Western hedonism, consumerism, drinking alcohol and unfettered recreational sexuality. The Paris attacks, similar but with many more people and a high level of planning, were also directed against a place where people were having fun with music, alcohol and dancing. But not specifically gay targets.
sean99
pfm Member
The Americans you refer to are usually at the lower end of the intelligence / experience curve, so perhaps we shouldn't take their opinions too seriously.
It is impossible to argue from a position of facts and data that increasing the number of weapons decreases the murder rate because America has a murder rate many times higher than almost every other developed nation, and most murderers use a gun.
audeo
Member
Morning guys,
Saw this topic while browsing and thought I'd post a link about what night clubbing should be about in America - or anywhere else for that matter, from a sound man's point of view. Sorry if it seems inappropriate, insensitive or irrelevant to the thread, given the scale of what's just happened - happy for the mods to delete if you do. Just trying to bring a little bit of cheer to the (retro) audiophile in you, on a depressing Monday morning.
http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2016/05/the-note-alex-rosner
Saw this topic while browsing and thought I'd post a link about what night clubbing should be about in America - or anywhere else for that matter, from a sound man's point of view. Sorry if it seems inappropriate, insensitive or irrelevant to the thread, given the scale of what's just happened - happy for the mods to delete if you do. Just trying to bring a little bit of cheer to the (retro) audiophile in you, on a depressing Monday morning.
http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2016/05/the-note-alex-rosner
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Correct, they are one and the same, even if their selected targets may vary depending on their mood.
All quietly pleased with themselves.