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Gay Nightclub In Florida Attacked By Gunmen.

^ I'm still not 100% sure what his angle is, from fairly early on I understood it as terrorist attack on a gay night club. I'm not sure any other way of reporting it is necessary, it was pretty clear that it was targeted at the LGBT community. He gave the impression that this community was somehow more exclusive and sacred than any other, which I don't think is what he meant but either way he didn't manage to make his point in a particularly coherent way.
 
It was disturbing to watch. The presenter and the woman simply would not accept it was an attack on LGBT people because they were LGBT people. There are lots of clubs he could have picked and he made a choice to attack a LGBT club, it was not random. I'm still puzzled about why they could not bring themselves to recognise that fact.
 
as if things couldn't get worse, dan patrick, lt. governor of texas posted then deleted the following the nightclub shootings.

"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows."
 
TPA said:
^ I'm still not 100% sure what his angle is, from fairly early on I understood it as terrorist attack on a gay night club. I'm not sure any other way of reporting it is necessary, it was pretty clear that it was targeted at the LGBT community. He gave the impression that this community was somehow more exclusive and sacred than any other, which I don't think is what he meant but either way he didn't manage to make his point in a particularly coherent way.
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I didn't see any evidence whatsoever that he "gave the impression that this community was somehow more exclusive and sacred than any other" - perhaps you can specifically quote him to support what you appear to have inferred.

"he didn't manage to make his point in a particularly coherent way." in part because the two Sky knobs continually interrupted him and spoke over him.
 
We seem to have entered into a debate over the killer's motives. Was he driven by homophobia or religious radicalization? The answer is probably yes, both, but only time and more evidence will tell us to which form of hatred played a more significant role.

One thing to me is clear: as with other oppressed minorities, there are too many places in this world where LGBT people live in fear, and where being openly gay can get a person killed. I am not just talking about an isolated incident where a bipolar, steroid-abusing homophobe like Mateen can find a way to act out his sick fantasy. I am talking about countries where violence against the LGBT community is an engrained part of their culture.

At the U.N., members of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation and the African Union, have repeatedly said they are opposed to any discussion of LGBT rights. They say that homosexuality is irrelevant to their religious values. They use this intellectually bankrupt argument of cultural relativism to walk away from any responsibility for advancing human rights. Worse yet, homosexuality remains a crime which, in many of these countries, is still punishable by death. In my view, these countries do as much to engender worldwide hatred of the LGBT community as any terrorist organization.
 
TPA said:
^ I'm still not 100% sure what his angle is, from fairly early on I understood it as terrorist attack on a gay night club. I'm not sure any other way of reporting it is necessary, it was pretty clear that it was targeted at the LGBT community. He gave the impression that this community was somehow more exclusive and sacred than any other, which I don't think is what he meant but either way he didn't manage to make his point in a particularly coherent way.
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It's hardly a great leap to think an attack on a gay night club is an hate crime against gays. He was outraged when this simple proposition was denied and argued-with, repeatedly. He felt disrespected that the pain and hurt to his group was not being acknowledged. This felt, I'm sure, like a further dose of 'you don't count, you're not OK.' More dilute than the homophobia that had just got 50 people slaughtered, but the same juice.

But he wasn't completely calm and clear in response, so never mind.
 
chainrule said:
as if things couldn't get worse, dan patrick, lt. governor of texas posted then deleted the following the nightclub shootings.

"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows."
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There's certainly a faction of Christianity that hates gays.
 
Hook said:
At the U.N., members of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation and the African Union, have repeatedly said they are opposed to any discussion of LGBT rights. They say that homosexuality is irrelevant to their religious values. They use this intellectually bankrupt argument of cultural relativism to walk away from any responsibility for advancing human rights. Worse yet, homosexuality remains a crime which, in many of these countries, is still punishable by death. In my view, these countries do as much to engender worldwide hatred of the LGBT community as any terrorist organization.
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Agreed. If western politics were not so far over to the extremes of the political right these countries would be blacklisted and met with trade embargoes and sanctions. It is the only correct way of handling things IMHO.
 
dweezil said:
Also saw quite a few gay Moroccans, i'm sure the country is Muslim but they tolerated it.
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Per the Wikipedia page:

Article 489 of the Penal Code of Morocco criminalizes “lewd or unnatural acts with an individual of the same sex.”.[2] Same-sex sexual activity is illegal in Morocco and can be punished with anything from 6 months to 3 years imprisonment and a fine of 120 to 1200 dirhams.[3][4] However, the law is sporadically enforced by the authorities,[4] with a degree of tolerance extended to homosexuality in the holiday resorts like Marrakesh.[4] Often these relationships are a form of prostitution, involving tourists. The legal status of LGBT people living in Morocco stems largely from traditional Islamic morality, which views homosexuality and cross dressing as signs of immorality.[5]
 
chainrule said:
as if things couldn't get worse, dan patrick, lt. governor of texas posted then deleted the following the nightclub shootings.

"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows."
Click to expand...

DonQuixote99 said:
There's certainly a faction of Christianity that hates gays.
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That said, I looked into this one and it's plausible that the post was part of his regularly scheduled program of Bible tweets, and not chosen in reaction to the Orlando shooting.
 
Greg said:
I didn't see any evidence whatsoever that he "gave the impression that this community was somehow more exclusive and sacred than any other" - perhaps you can specifically quote him to support what you appear to have inferred.

"he didn't manage to make his point in a particularly coherent way." in part because the two Sky knobs continually interrupted him and spoke over him.
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"you don't understand this because you're not gay"

And downhill from there.
 
gassor said:
Come on. He was upset because the people murdered were at a LGBT club and he wanted that to be the main focus of the discussion, the hostility that LBGT people are faced with. I think most people seeing it in a wider context.
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It's blindingly obvious to me that the host and the other panelist wanted to move away from the LGBT angle as soon as possible. At the end of the day 50+ people were murdered *because they were gay*. Yes, other people might be murdered by fundamentalists because they're out having fun, cheering on a football team or whatever. But violence and bigotry against gay people has a long history (IIRC, the Nazis weren't keen). Again, 50+ people were murdered because they were gay. That's worthy of far more reflection than the Sky programme seemed willing to afford it.
 
John said:
I'm not aware of any Christian countries that advocate murdering homosexuals though there are several Muslim countries where that is the case.
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Plenty of Christian nutjobs hate gays and are happy to see them killed. A perversion of the Christian message of course, just as what this nutjob did yesterday is a perversion of Islam.
 
droodzilla said:
Plenty of Christian nutjobs hate gays and are happy to see them killed. A perversion of the Christian message of course, just as what this nutjob did yesterday is a perversion of Islam.
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Yes, but as I said there are no Christian countries that have laws advocating killing homosexuals. Why do these laws exist in Muslim countries if the majority feel that murdering homosexuals is wrong?
 
DonQuixote99 said:
That said, I looked into this one and it's plausible that the post was part of his regularly scheduled program of Bible tweets, and not chosen in reaction to the Orlando shooting.
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sure, and the quote is vague enough to apply to anything, but given the source, timing and deletion, i suspect it was a reaction to the shooting.
 
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