advertisement


Environmental effects of EV`s

martin clark said:
Handling hydrogen is a nightmare in comparison to zero benefit. Synthetic fuels will have a place - but it is fairly-limited (and not, by renewable generation to create it)
Click to expand...
Synthetic fuels can be green as long as the processing is done using solar or renewable energy. Some Bio fuel suppliers are already doing this. I am in favour of this as it enables you to keep your existing car on the road, as well as all those classic and high performance cars and the vast industry that supports them. Don't get me wrong, I like the EV concept. My wife has one and for her it is a no brainer, but EV's are not for everyone and certainly not for undeveloped countries where there will never be any infrastructure built. Oh shit, like here really! :)
 
martin clark said:
now the 'red diesel' tax break has gone away forever
Click to expand...

I have two diesel heaters at home.

1 Litre of red diesel costs £ 1.10
1 Litre of 'road' white diesel £ 1.63

So with a 25 Litre fill the additional tax is £ 12.00, an issue in itself as to how to replace the lost tax revenue from vehicle fuel.


Red diesel is restricted to the following uses:

In vehicles and machinery used in agriculture, horticulture, fish farming and forestry, including allowing vehicles used for agriculture to be used for cutting verges and hedges, snow clearance and gritting roads
  • Propelling passenger, freight or maintenance vehicles designed to run on rail tracks
  • For heating and electricity generation in non-commercial premises, including heating homes and buildings such as places of worship, hospitals and townhalls; off-grid power generation; and non-propulsion uses on permanently-moored houseboats
  • Maintaining community amateur sports clubs and golf courses (including activities such as ground maintenance, heating and lighting of clubhouses, changing rooms etc.)
  • As fuel for all marine craft refuelling and operating in the UK (including fishing and water freight industries), except for propelling private pleasure craft in Northern Ireland
  • Powering machinery (including caravans) of travelling fairs and circuses

Not gone away forever nor will it ever be.
 
misterdog said:
Red diesel is restricted to the following uses:

In vehicles and machinery used in agriculture, horticulture, fish farming and forestry, including allowing vehicles used for agriculture to be used for cutting verges and hedges, snow clearance and gritting roads
  • Propelling passenger, freight or maintenance vehicles designed to run on rail tracks
  • For heating and electricity generation in non-commercial premises, including heating homes and buildings such as places of worship, hospitals and townhalls; off-grid power generation; and non-propulsion uses on permanently-moored houseboats
  • Maintaining community amateur sports clubs and golf courses (including activities such as ground maintenance, heating and lighting of clubhouses, changing rooms etc.)
  • As fuel for all marine craft refuelling and operating in the UK (including fishing and water freight industries), except for propelling private pleasure craft in Northern Ireland
  • Powering machinery (including caravans) of travelling fairs and circuses

Not gone away forever nor will it ever be.
Click to expand...

Now, read that back in the context I posted it: it totally excludes Construction activity. All construction activity, from mining, mineral extration, all on-site plant use, through to Construction-site use.

That has proved an immense issue.
The result is massive investment of the future huge on-cost difference, elsewhere. And it is realising other benefits, already.
 
misterdog said:
Investing is a great word.

The construction industry is passing on the increased cost to the consumer.
Click to expand...

Its smaller than the on-cost of the tax increase to the one-off client.

It doedn't take make of a very simple build development at all, to use a million litres of diesel. At.All. Might be a 4-5% premium without the tax exemption. About a £1M on ~ £20-25M build

Invest that forward - hell, yes. The UK Tier 1 Contractors are only running 1-2% profit over recent years. So for approaching 4% advantage on internal costs is beyond 'worth having' in Tenders. They cannot get shot of diesel to the maximal extent possible, soon enough. Most of the large plant needed is hired pro-tem.; and it is the Plant Hire specialists that have spotted the commercial advantage. yes - it works for them, too.
 
G T Audio said:
Hydrogen makes perfect sense especially to a company like JCB where their products can be used 24/7. Its no good if a large digger has to stop for 6 hours while it charges up, when a hydrogen recharge only takes minutes. Also for large commercial vehicles the batteries are just to big and heavy to make the vehicles of any use. The whole EV thing is just a money making scam. The life expectancy of an EV battery is about 8-10 years before it has to be replaced. When that time comes it becomes unecomimical to replace the battery, so the battery and the car has to be disposed of. What a waste. That isn't green. If the world is really serious about reducing greenhouse gases then China, India and the USA for starters have to get rid of their coal and gas fired power stations and move to greener power generation solutions. These countries are responsible for producing most of the worlds greenhouse gases.

For information the USA is way further down the hydrogen road for industrial vehicles than pretty much any other country. They have sites producing hydrogen at present.
Click to expand...
and which industry is ‘pushing’ hydrogen??? What is the conversion efficiency of the processes used? What are the emissions involved in the current processes?

Regards

Richard
 
martin clark said:
Its smaller than the on-cost of the tax increase to the one-off client.

It doedn't take make of a very simple build development at all, to use a million litres of diesel. At.All. Might be a 4-5% premium without the tax exemption. About a £1M on ~ £20-25M build

Invest that forward - hell, yes. The UK Tier 1 Contractors are only running 1-2% profit over recent years. So for approaching 4% advantage on internal costs is beyond 'worth having' in Tenders. They cannot get shot of diesel to the maximal extent possible, soon enough. Most of the large plant needed is hired pro-tem.; and it is the Plant Hire specialists that have spotted the commercial advantage. yes - it works for them, too.
Click to expand...

I don’t think misterdog is going to let facts get in the way of his argument!
 
I think the point to note is that batteries and EV's are not the total answer. It will be a number of solutions including hydrogen, bio fuels and of course petrol and diesel will still form part of the total solution, all be it on a smaller scale. The whole green issue is really the tail wagging the dog. Until we get rid of the maximum polluters, as in China, India and the USA's coal and gas fired power stations which are by far the biggest world polluters, to move to greener ways to produce power its going to make bugger all difference to global emissions. Trying to push the worlds emissions problem on to the motorist which make up a very small percentage of global emissions is already being seen through. I was talking to a main car dealer the other day and the reduction in sales of EV's is down 22%. He said people who have brought them like 6 to 12 moths ago have sold them back to the garage as they simply can't put up with the hassle and inconvenience of them. Reports of the lack of range, especially in the winter and the lack of charging infrastructure is mostly responsible for this. Another point to note is that EV's don't suit everyone.
 
G T Audio said:
I think the point to note is that batteries and EV's are not the total answer.
Click to expand...
We know this, and nobody with more than half a brain is suggesting that they are.
G T Audio said:
Another point to note is that EV's don't suit everyone.
Click to expand...
Again, we know. I drive a car when I need to, but it's useless for moving furniture. So I hire a Transit. I don't drive a Tranny every day to cover the once every two years need to ship a wardrobe. I often ride a bike, but that's another form of transport that doesn't suit anyone. Pretty useless, not to mention illegal, on the M62 too. But dead handy for dodging the rush hour on local trips.
 
As a matter on interest does anyone know what proportion of the worlds annual new oil extraction is used for purposes other than powering transport and heating?

I have in mind things like feedstock for the chemical manufacturing industries. Given that we live in a an increasingly plastic world I imagine considerable quatities must be usd in platics manufacturing, despite the move to recycling and packaging reduction.

I suppose I could just resort to Google, but I'm feeling lazy this morning.
 
G T Audio said:
I think the point to note is that batteries and EV's are not the total answer. It will be a number of solutions including hydrogen, bio fuels and of course petrol and diesel will still form part of the total solution, all be it on a smaller scale. The whole green issue is really the tail wagging the dog. Until we get rid of the maximum polluters, as in China, India and the USA's coal and gas fired power stations which are by far the biggest world polluters, to move to greener ways to produce power its going to make bugger all difference to global emissions. Trying to push the worlds emissions problem on to the motorist which make up a very small percentage of global emissions is already being seen through. I was talking to a main car dealer the other day and the reduction in sales of EV's is down 22%. He said people who have brought them like 6 to 12 moths ago have sold them back to the garage as they simply can't put up with the hassle and inconvenience of them. Reports of the lack of range, especially in the winter and the lack of charging infrastructure is mostly responsible for this. Another point to note is that EV's don't suit everyone.
Click to expand...
I believe also that one of the biggest single contributers to air polution are internal flights in the USA.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GT
MikeMA said:
As a matter on interest does anyone know what proportion of the worlds annual new oil extraction is used for purposes other than powering transport and heating?

I have in mind things like feedstock for the chemical manufacturing industries. Given that we live in a an increasingly plastic world I imagine considerable quatities must be usd in platics manufacturing, despite the move to recycling and packaging reduction.

I suppose I could just resort to Google, but I'm feeling lazy this morning.
Click to expand...

May be out of date - but back when I took an interest in these things (I am kind of in the plastics industry) the stat was that about 6% of what came of the ground went into plastics - and furthermore most of that was a portion that was otherwise going to be unused.
 
MikeMA said:
As a matter on interest does anyone know what proportion of the worlds annual new oil extraction is used for purposes other than powering transport and heating?

I have in mind things like feedstock for the chemical manufacturing industries. Given that we live in a an increasingly plastic world I imagine considerable quatities must be usd in platics manufacturing, despite the move to recycling and packaging reduction.

I suppose I could just resort to Google, but I'm feeling lazy this morning.
Click to expand...
As has been pointed out, oil is too precious a resource to simply burn.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top