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Elsdon Wonfor Audio LS-25 speaker cables

CJ14 said:
No deliberate filtering at all, but due to construction the capacitance & inductance do act like a filter, on test the cable at 1Metre has a self resonance into no load of 1MHz and a roll of 10MHz @ 0.5db into 8 Ohm.
Sorry my writing skills are crap so I hope this helps.
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Thanks. Half a decibel is not much. Many would probably not hear that. I guess it could be enough though to take some of the high frequency 'hash' and some
CJ14 said:
No deliberate filtering at all, but due to construction the capacitance & inductance do act like a filter, on test the cable at 1Metre has a self resonance into no load of 1MHz and a roll of 10MHz @ 0.5db into 8 Ohm.
Sorry my writing skills are crap so I hope this helps.
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Hi, Thanks. What would the likely audible subjective result of this roll-off be?

DM
 
drummerman said:
Thanks. Half a decibel is not much. Many would probably not hear that. I guess it could be enough though to take some of the high frequency 'hash' and some


Hi, Thanks. What would the likely audible subjective result of this roll-off be?

DM
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The odd thing is I hear is the Bass attack on drums and bass guitar, and cannon on the Telarc 1812 woooo , just a lot more detail and air.
 
Litz twisted for interference rejection.

There does not seem to be any space for shielding or a return wire (or anything else).

Is there more to it?
 
I dont think colin will reveal too much, he also has trouble reading amd writing too. Not sure what you mean by a return. Theres a positive and negative conductor. Shielding is not a common design choice in speaker cables. Twisting of litz is to reduce proximity effect. Because without twisting, proximity effect losses can dominate over skin effect losses. Litz wire is described as multiple insulated strands that are twisted, litz wire is designed to combat both skin effect and proximity effect losses. Without twisting it may not be considered a true litz cable as nothing is gained.
 
Julf said:
Yes - at long wave and medium wave radio frequencies. Not at audio frequencies.
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Yes correct, i was not really meaning losses. But the effect the losses have on phase shift. But i did not want to digress. As you are aware i dont think losses at audio frequencies are audible or significant.
 
This is interesting:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect

And this:- https://www.belden.com/blog/broadcast/understanding-skin-effect-and-frequency

This is fun:- http://daycounter.com/Calculators/SkinEffect/Skin-Effect-Calculator.phtml

Ideal for fickies like me:-http://www.edisontechcenter.org/wires.html

FYI
A few years ago I was involved in a Ultrasonic 20KHz 1Kw cleaner design, now from most of what I read in this thread, the effects of skin effect considered by most at 20KHz would be pointless WRONG changing the wire to the Piezo Transducer from solid core to Litz gave a 60% increase in transmitted power, and the cleaner went on to the market were as before it could not, this error in the first design by a young inexperienced engineer could have cost the company a fortune, but a simply change by me fixed it. Oh the output was a sine wave and at 400VAC driven by a Litz wound transformer, resonant converter.
Wire length was about 200mm pair. I used 7*0.3mm litz made in 3 core i.e. 21*0.3mm PTFE covered Litz.
 
CJ14 said:
This is interesting:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect

And this:- https://www.belden.com/blog/broadcast/understanding-skin-effect-and-frequency

This is fun:- http://daycounter.com/Calculators/SkinEffect/Skin-Effect-Calculator.phtml

Ideal for fickies like me:-http://www.edisontechcenter.org/wires.html

FYI
A few years ago I was involved in a Ultrasonic 20KHz 1Kw cleaner design, now from most of what I read in this thread, the effects of skin effect considered by most at 20KHz would be pointless WRONG changing the wire to the Piezo Transducer from solid core to Litz gave a 60% increase in transmitted power, and the cleaner went on to the market were as before it could not, this error in the first design by a young inexperienced engineer could have cost the company a fortune, but a simply change by me fixed it. Oh the output was a sine wave and at 400VAC driven by a Litz wound transformer, resonant converter.
Wire length was about 200mm pair. I used 7*0.3mm litz made in 3 core i.e. 21*0.3mm PTFE covered Litz.
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No offense colin, but you repeatedly misrepresent your facts and reasoning. If we look at it, we can clearly see that skin effect happens within the audioband when self or mutual inductance reduces the skin depth. However the loss is so trivial and insignificant.
When you increase the power factor, you magnify the losses. So yes, in applications where high power consumption and transmission efficiency is required, this might have a significant benefit. In audio, are you serious ?. With a 4m 14awg speaker cable connected to a 4ohm load @ 200 watts, there is a 0.14db power loss at 20khz. Now that is being very generous by allowing a higher than average power output and low load impedance. Even so, 0.14db is really really small. I struggle to differentiate 0.2db.

Now i am happy to hear any further reasoning why you think skin effect is important for cable design, such as phase errors or group delay. But unless you provide arguments to suggest why this small, insignificant signal loss is audible. Im not convinced. :)
 
My LS-XXV has been compared by my collegue against Tellurium Q Ultra Black (UB is 2.5x more expensive).
He said LS-XXV shows the same level of musicality ,but high tones are more pronounced (UB is a bit shy in this area). EWA cable created more open soundstage and it is better balanced in whole frequency.
 
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I have to say I’m a bit of a cable skeptic to date and have been pretty stingy in %system value terms. However, naturally curious I bought some black rhodium tempest for the office system (it was on sale). I have to say I was shocked, if that’s a placebo effect I’ll take it, BIG upgrade and feels like the missing link in that system (which is super revealing). Replaced a good silver plated cable too. Food for thought for me.
 
JB76 said:
I have to say I’m a bit of a cable skeptic to date and have been pretty stingy in %system value terms. However, naturally curious I bought some black rhodium tempest for the office system (it was on sale). I have to say I was shocked, if that’s a placebo effect I’ll take it, BIG upgrade and feels like the missing link in that system (which is super revealing). Replaced a good silver plated cable too. Food for thought for me.
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Surely of this stuff is so good it deserves better than 'the office system'?
 
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