paulc
Registered User
Zappi is what I am putting in, single phase 7KW along with solar & 13.5KW of batteries. To be honest charging at cheap overnight rates is fine for me, but I appreciate the point on not relying on solar for car charging.
Car - going electric
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- Start date
gingermrkettle
Deep vein trombonist
We do generally have at least one car at home (1 BEV, one PHEV) at any point so we will generally be able to use whatever solar we generate given hot water diversion as well.
The only thing about the Zappi is that there is some fairly obvious functionality that could be put in around charging rates so that you could, say, run a boost at lower than 7kW if the solar/battery capacity would make that beneficial (and if they could also do that through Intelligent Octopus it would also help).
The only thing about the Zappi is that there is some fairly obvious functionality that could be put in around charging rates so that you could, say, run a boost at lower than 7kW if the solar/battery capacity would make that beneficial (and if they could also do that through Intelligent Octopus it would also help).
tones
Tones deaf
A rather amusing column from John Laverty in the Belfast Telegraph today - some excerpts:
I’d convinced myself that I wanted her. Needed her. Simply had to have her. 18 months later, however, I couldn’t wait to get shot of her. But listen: it wasn’t her, it was me.
‘She’ was great; easily the best car I’ve ever owned. Comfortable, smooth, fast and reliable, she changed my life — although, sadly, not in a good way.
And now the spark has gone, courtesy of an emotional reunion with an old faithful ICE maiden. Freedom!
...
In the weeks prior to its arrival, I was roaming Belfast in a petrol-propulsed vehicle, searching for charging points I’d use in the brave new world.
While Her Indoors labelled this behaviour as sad, I called it scrutiny.
...
Moreover, this shiny new four-door plug-in hybrid (PHEV) apparently does “37 miles” on a single charge; more than enough for tootling around town, commuting to work and those thrice-weekly trips to the daughter’s gymnastics sessions in Lisburn. What could possibly go wrong?
The first shock of the post-ICE Age: discovering that the non-fossil-fuel ‘range’ quoted was an utter myth. 37 miles? In your dreams, pal. In fact, all manufacturers tell similar porkies.
Aye — but you become determined not to use it. A petrol parachute counts as defeat in EV World.
Ergo ‘range anxiety’ — something I’d convinced myself wouldn’t be an issue with a hybrid — reared its ugly head.
Every moderate journey became mentally challenging; could I get there and back using just electricity?
The task invariably meant using the car’s clever regenerative deceleration — resulting in other drivers blaring horns in anger at the slowcoach idiot crawling towards a set of traffic lights.
Presupposed ‘fun’ challenges morphed into preoccupations as this driver changed from eco-warrior to eternal worrier. Maybe I should have taken the P and gone for a ‘HEV’ instead...
It took a while before the penny dropped; this car owns you, not the other way around. It had altered my internal combustion habits, honed over four decades, in a matter of weeks.
...
Meanwhile, our wee country remains bottom of the EV infrastructure league, despite now ‘boasting’ over 450 public chargers, including 80-odd super-duper ‘rapid’ ones.
That ain’t many when you consider that nearly 19,000 of us now have cars featuring some form of plug-in power.
None of the current top 10 selling vehicles in SUV-obsessed Northern Ireland, however, are fully electric.
...
Electric cars are fine as civic runabouts, and for owners lucky enough to have access to off-street parking within reach of an electric socket. If you don’t tick both those boxes, don’t buy one.
I’ve just dumped my electric car... and I couldn’t be happier
Like Northern Ireland itself, I wasn’t prepared for the revolutionI’d convinced myself that I wanted her. Needed her. Simply had to have her. 18 months later, however, I couldn’t wait to get shot of her. But listen: it wasn’t her, it was me.
‘She’ was great; easily the best car I’ve ever owned. Comfortable, smooth, fast and reliable, she changed my life — although, sadly, not in a good way.
And now the spark has gone, courtesy of an emotional reunion with an old faithful ICE maiden. Freedom!
...
In the weeks prior to its arrival, I was roaming Belfast in a petrol-propulsed vehicle, searching for charging points I’d use in the brave new world.
While Her Indoors labelled this behaviour as sad, I called it scrutiny.
...
Moreover, this shiny new four-door plug-in hybrid (PHEV) apparently does “37 miles” on a single charge; more than enough for tootling around town, commuting to work and those thrice-weekly trips to the daughter’s gymnastics sessions in Lisburn. What could possibly go wrong?
The first shock of the post-ICE Age: discovering that the non-fossil-fuel ‘range’ quoted was an utter myth. 37 miles? In your dreams, pal. In fact, all manufacturers tell similar porkies.
Aye — but you become determined not to use it. A petrol parachute counts as defeat in EV World.
Ergo ‘range anxiety’ — something I’d convinced myself wouldn’t be an issue with a hybrid — reared its ugly head.
Every moderate journey became mentally challenging; could I get there and back using just electricity?
The task invariably meant using the car’s clever regenerative deceleration — resulting in other drivers blaring horns in anger at the slowcoach idiot crawling towards a set of traffic lights.
Presupposed ‘fun’ challenges morphed into preoccupations as this driver changed from eco-warrior to eternal worrier. Maybe I should have taken the P and gone for a ‘HEV’ instead...
It took a while before the penny dropped; this car owns you, not the other way around. It had altered my internal combustion habits, honed over four decades, in a matter of weeks.
...
Meanwhile, our wee country remains bottom of the EV infrastructure league, despite now ‘boasting’ over 450 public chargers, including 80-odd super-duper ‘rapid’ ones.
That ain’t many when you consider that nearly 19,000 of us now have cars featuring some form of plug-in power.
None of the current top 10 selling vehicles in SUV-obsessed Northern Ireland, however, are fully electric.
...
Electric cars are fine as civic runabouts, and for owners lucky enough to have access to off-street parking within reach of an electric socket. If you don’t tick both those boxes, don’t buy one.
SteveG
pfm Member
I've owned a PHEV for a year now. In the first few months I did use public chargers from time to time but now only ever charge it at home. I do try and use the regenerative braking as much as is reasonable, but never to the extent that any drivers behind me would have noticed.
beammeup
pfm Member
Is there such thing as a self-charging hybrid which can do 'battery runs' like a plug-in hybrid?
For example - a plug-in hybrid can do 70 mph on battery alone and you can choose to keep it in battery only mode for, say, 20 miles or so for the local loop. Have good efficient self-charging designs got this far yet (like your Mk11 Civic)?
SteveG
pfm Member
I don't really see the point in the mild (i.e. non PHEV) hybrids (other than as a tax dodge) although that could be from a lack of understanding.
The distance our Outlander can do on EV only does vary widely on the time of year (e.g. lights & heating being on or not) and the type of driving and terrain - however in our use it'll do 15 to 20 miles of urban driving on a charge so most of our in-town driving is electric. Some folks in less hilly (and/or warmer) locations report they can usually get mid 20's on a charge.
It's a big, heavy petrol car though so at motorway speeds on ICE along it's really a 30mpg car - however with a charge, using regeneration (and most importantly) driving slower and more gently I can and have got 40mpg on 160 mile each way trip to our cottage in the Cairngorms (with much of that being on hilly terrain). As an experiment I did drive my petrol estate car in exactly the same way and got 50mpg out of it, but it's a fair bit lighter and more aerodynamic.
The distance our Outlander can do on EV only does vary widely on the time of year (e.g. lights & heating being on or not) and the type of driving and terrain - however in our use it'll do 15 to 20 miles of urban driving on a charge so most of our in-town driving is electric. Some folks in less hilly (and/or warmer) locations report they can usually get mid 20's on a charge.
It's a big, heavy petrol car though so at motorway speeds on ICE along it's really a 30mpg car - however with a charge, using regeneration (and most importantly) driving slower and more gently I can and have got 40mpg on 160 mile each way trip to our cottage in the Cairngorms (with much of that being on hilly terrain). As an experiment I did drive my petrol estate car in exactly the same way and got 50mpg out of it, but it's a fair bit lighter and more aerodynamic.
gingermrkettle
Deep vein trombonist
This. They are an ICE car with a moderately more efficient drivetrain, a tech demonstrator for an electric drivetrain and nothing more. The whole point of a BEV or PHEV is that all or some of the energy used comes from electricity rather than directly burning stuff.
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
With the Civic you don't choose what does the driving - the petrol engine charges the battery, and sometimes it's running until the battery is charged up - the only indication's a light in the display. When you get to a certain speed, over 70 mph, the petrol engine drives the front wheels directly in addition to the battery. It's all completely seamless and gives excellent fuel consumption.
Non-PHEV hybrids are a bit of a thing of the past, but they do allow you to make a very efficient low torque engine and use a motor to generate that low down torque in use, they recover a good chunk of electricity in deceleration to run the motor. My insight (over 20 years old) will return over 70mpg with little effort, over 90 with effort and some people regularly get over 100mpg out of them. Not many petrol cars return that sort of efficiency now, never mind last century! The VW Polo 3l was the only other thing that was equivalent (and the XL2 but that was daft money). This stuff also paved the way for high voltage electrics in mainstream cars, before Tesla motors was a thing and anyone had any form or charging network.
Here in Leeds most of the taxis are Prius, so they must work in practice. They get good economy in town, which is 90% of their use. No clutch to wear out either, and auto boxes tend to last for 250k miles plus between rebuilds.
The Fiat I used on holiday was the same. It was handy on hills, the electric motors assisted at low engine speeds and helped it go uphill much easier than small cars without EV assistance. The transition back to charging the batteris after that assistance was seamless and undetectable.
martin clark
pinko bodger
Darren
So gentle when he tries to understand.
I keep thinking the same every time I see a Prius Taxi. They clearly make economic sense and seem very robust in use.
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
No, its bolloux. His inability to drive with care and consideration to other motorists is not a stick to beat the car with only himself. If he is hypermiling, this is not an EV technique but a driving technique and has been around forever. You do not need to slow down gradually as the regen braking works just fine slowing down normally. most EV cars even use the brake lights when doing it.
Honestly the lengths people go to to make up anti electric stories is ridiculous.
To the OP from the Belfast rag. I was in Belfast not long ago, with a colleague, in an EV and it was fine. Plenty of chargers - not enough if you think like a petrol car and wait for it to run out before looking but enough with a degree of planning. His only accurate points were the range declared is a disgrace (like all mileage claims ICE and BEV) and having home charging is critical currently.
If you want the world on a stick and everything laid before you on a silver platter, I agree EV's are probably not for you. Also you mention a change in decades of petrol buying habits in mere weeks as a bad thing. That is kind of the point isn't it???
SteveG
pfm Member
Isn't the current Prius now a PHEV?
I don't know. It would make sense.
martin clark
pinko bodger
The Prius always has-been such a hybrid; and it is the the Prius' transmission, that is a thing of wonder; quite brilliant design
- uses one petrol engine, Atkinson-cycle; and two electric motors; and all three linked together with several differential gearsets (but NO other stepped/CVT gearing!) that allows utterly-seamless, reverse-to forward to max speed with no clutches, no other gearsets, required: nothing to wear-out - other than the engine.
ETA - Weber Auto are good on this whole subject & sim for modern EVs (and other car tear-downs) - here's 25mins more than you wanted to know on this one aspect, for instance:
- uses one petrol engine, Atkinson-cycle; and two electric motors; and all three linked together with several differential gearsets (but NO other stepped/CVT gearing!) that allows utterly-seamless, reverse-to forward to max speed with no clutches, no other gearsets, required: nothing to wear-out - other than the engine.
ETA - Weber Auto are good on this whole subject & sim for modern EVs (and other car tear-downs) - here's 25mins more than you wanted to know on this one aspect, for instance:
yeah, barely use mine now, but cant quite get rid as it is so good at what it does. i have cosmic grey (metallic black) but you got orange seats to avoid it being too dull.
interesting that at inception Honda and Toyota took such different paths, The Prius is complex and very clever in how it works, Honda could not have made the insight any simpler from a technical viewpoint, take an existing style of ICE powertrain and bolt a motor onto the flywheel!
Disingenuous article. He didn't buy an electric car. He bought a PHEV, which is a kind of petrol car. I feel PHEVs are the worst of both worlds : very short EV range with the noise and lag of an ICE power train. Also, PHEVs generally cannot use the DC fast charging stations that are now becoming the norm.
The whole point of a PHEV (leaving aside the cynical "qualify for lower BIK") is that you charge it at home overnight, and that saves you 30-40 miles of driving on petrol. They're not intended to be used as electric cars full time, and doing so will cause problems for the petrol power train.
So yeah, if my EV did less than 50 miles on a charge, I'd have handed it back too... not none do.