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Can a sub be too big for the room?

Neil P

Neil P

pfm Member
I'd like to add a sub to my AV/stereo system, simultaneously supporting both front channels and providing LFE. Can subs ever "overpower" the room, or is it just a case of turning them down a bit? The model I've got my eye on is 15" 1000w... My room is 6x4m. My previous sub was 12" 500w but couldn't simultaneously do life and hi-level input, so I sold that to fund the upgrade.
 
Neil P said:
I'd like to add a sub to my AV/stereo system, simultaneously supporting both front channels and providing LFE. Can subs ever "overpower" the room, or is it just a case of turning them down a bit? The model I've got my eye on is 15" 1000w... My room is 6x4m. My previous sub was 12" 500w but couldn't simultaneously do life and hi-level input, so I sold that to fund the upgrade.
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Frequencies 'overpower' rooms, not subwoofer size. Careful positioning and EQ can help.
 
^^^^^^ + 1
I've used a 12" sub (not ported, uses 2 x 12" passive ) in a variety of rooms, I've never thought that room size made any difference with the sub set up.
 
Other than the impact of physical dimensions, there is no such thing as a speaker (or sub woofer) being too large for a room. They can however be too small for a room and as pointed out above, your room's acoustics may cause a problem, but this can happen across the whole frequency range. My FP15s, which sport 15" bass drivers are playing wonderfully in a 3.6m by 3.6m room, which also has extensive acousitc treatments.
 
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To answer your question, from my experience is no. Most hifi systems I’ve heard allow you to hear the music but never feel it. Feeling is a big part of the pleasure. The best gear energises the air molecules. You can feel the instruments and vocals excite the hairs on your arms and feel the sub in your chest wall so it starts to excite your sinoatrial node and raise your heart rate. Sit a few feet away from a cello and you will feel it on your skin, hair, chair and clothing.

Bass is only as good as the system managing it. You need multiple subs that go right down to 20Hz strongly and room measurements to ensure your room correction is delivering bass impulse correctly without sounding like the flabby bass from a drug dealers blacked out BMW. My speakers and system is exemplary in this regard.

Good luck.
 
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Probably also helps if you have a large detached house in the country a very long way from the nearest neighbours!

The problem with big subs in small rooms often isn't so much their performance in the room as outside it.
 
Go for as big as your partner/finances/foundations/walls will allow

You will be far better off with a good monster(s) who is just ticking over flapping your trousers than a smaller sub that has to operate near limits at lower frequencys to give you the same `effect`
Tuning the beast small or large with good DSP or eq is key, lowering output rather than boosting frequencys is best.
Headroom, allways good and allows blowing the socks off visitors!
Infrasonics, once experienced you want more

 
Neil P said:
I'd like to add a sub to my AV/stereo system, simultaneously supporting both front channels and providing LFE. Can subs ever "overpower" the room, or is it just a case of turning them down a bit? The model I've got my eye on is 15" 1000w... My room is 6x4m. My previous sub was 12" 500w but couldn't simultaneously do life and hi-level input, so I sold that to fund the upgrade.
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Can your room accommodate two subs? You will get better seat to seat response with two subs compared to one. Use REW software (free) to time align them.

I have 2 x 12in and 2x 14in subs in a room the same size as yours….there’s no such thing as too much bass :). More subs = more headroom.
 
andyr said:
Can you advise which REW graphs I should look at, to know whether I've set the delay correctly. I'd very much like to know.
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There is an alignment tool available in REW, which allows you to sum the response of both subs and adjust the delay to get a smoother response with maximum summation. You can also use this tool to perform phase alignment at the crossover, which is a little discussed topic but it’s equally important to get the phase aligned between your main speakers and subs.

Some AV receivers and processors can handle two subs independently and set the delay automatically. I’d always validate the response in REW though.

I recommend Jeff Mery’s videos where he goes through sub alignment step-by-step:

 
brumjam said:
There is an alignment tool available in REW, which allows you to sum the response of both subs and adjust the delay to get a smoother response with maximum summation.
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Which is not something I'm interested in doing, unfortunately. :(

brumjam said:
but it’s equally important to get the phase aligned between your main speakers and subs.
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That is not what I am trying to find out how to do - as I know how to do it.

I am simply trying to find out how to get the delay right, between my 'mains' and my subs..

brumjam said:
I recommend Jeff Mery’s videos where he goes through sub alignment step-by-step:

Click to expand...

Thank you - I'll have a look.

Although I suspect he will be talking about sub placement and phase setting - rather than delay. 😮
 
andyr said:
Which is not something I'm interested in doing, unfortunately. :(



That is not what I am trying to find out how to do - as I know how to do it.

I am simply trying to find out how to get the delay right, between my 'mains' and my subs..



Thank you - I'll have a look.

Although I suspect he will be talking about sub placement and phase setting - rather than delay. 😮
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Are you just looking for a speed of sound calculation, so the waveform arrives at the same time?
 
andyr said:
Which is not something I'm interested in doing, unfortunately. :(



That is not what I am trying to find out how to do - as I know how to do it.

I am simply trying to find out how to get the delay right, between my 'mains' and my subs..



Thank you - I'll have a look.

Although I suspect he will be talking about sub placement and phase setting - rather than delay. 😮
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You can still use the alignment tool to set delay between mains and subs.
 
Mike Hanson said:
Are you just looking for a speed of sound calculation, so the waveform arrives at the same time?
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The fly in the ointment is any latency in a modern sub due to dsp. It’s good to get to get the delays correct, although I’ve found there is a certain amount of wiggle room before errors become audible. In practice I’ve found it is better to err on the side of the sub being delayed relative to the mains. REW is one’s friend though, although I can’t remember, without firing it up, exactly how to do it. Not too difficult though.

Phase and delay are two different but related items, in particular one has to be careful that adjusting delay doesn’t upset phase leading to FR problems at the crossover to the mains.
 
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