Mike P
Trade: Pickwell Audio
A sneak preview of something new I have in the pipeline.
20240327_142436 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr
20240327_142436 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr
Another Thorens TD124 overhaul
- Thread starter Mike P
- Start date
Beadlesabout
Active Member
Google says $99.75
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
Don`t know about the original price but in September 1964 Telesonic (Tottenham Court Road) offered them at £38 7 4 - the Garrard 301 was £22 0 11.
Tony L
Administrator
I don’t think the price difference is meaningful as the UK had very high import taxes and as I understand it the 301/401 were always sold as loss-leaders to help promote Garrard‘s cheaper stuff. There is also an economy of scale at work. All these turntables sold in vast numbers, about 7000 a year per model as I understand it, and with those sort of sales the machines needed to make them efficiently could be budgeted.
These days any turntables of even vaguely similar quality are coming out of CNC machines etc at a snail’s pace compared to the precision moulding of these classics. Very few companies today can afford injection moulding etc, and those who can (Technics, Rega (arms), SME (arms) etc) tend to be the ones who have been doing it a very long time, and even then only on certain parts. I watched a YouTube video tour of SME, one of Michael Fremer’s IIRC. It showed part of their new LOLprice deck being cut by a CNC machine and it was painfully slow. Hours and hours to make just one chassis. Totally inefficient compared to the way a 301, 124 or SL-1200 is made. That’s the price of a tiny marketplace these days.
These days any turntables of even vaguely similar quality are coming out of CNC machines etc at a snail’s pace compared to the precision moulding of these classics. Very few companies today can afford injection moulding etc, and those who can (Technics, Rega (arms), SME (arms) etc) tend to be the ones who have been doing it a very long time, and even then only on certain parts. I watched a YouTube video tour of SME, one of Michael Fremer’s IIRC. It showed part of their new LOLprice deck being cut by a CNC machine and it was painfully slow. Hours and hours to make just one chassis. Totally inefficient compared to the way a 301, 124 or SL-1200 is made. That’s the price of a tiny marketplace these days.
ruckerfoad
Active Member
I couldn't get the alloy platter centered to save my life... I'm assuming the labor to center the Zamac platter, with its smaller machined adapter, was an overall cost advantage compared to the one-piece machined cast iron platter. Certainly not optimal from a serviceability perspective.
Schopper usually have original used platters for sale on ebay. I bought mine that way.
VINTAGE ORIGINAL MAIN PLATTER THORENS TD 124 USED | eBay
We add 6 pcs of new rubber pads (rubber support for top platter). It is NOT the non magnetic platter.www.ebay.co.uk
I received and fitted one of these cast iron platters today. It’s reassuringly heavy.
I had a couple of issues with the fitting that I haven’t seen mentioned before.
Firstly the strobe readings were way out with just fitting the new platter and nothing else changed. I checked with an iPhone app and rotation speed is spot on (as it was with the old platter). The painted strobe pattern on the underside looks a bit different, so maybe there’s something going on here that I haven’t got my head around yet.
Original platter:
‘New’, cast iron platter:
Any thoughts?
Secondly, the light-weight upper platter would not sit level on top of the new heavy platter (no problems with the old one). It wasn’t resting on the 6 rubber ‘dots’.
It turned out that the mounting plate for the 45 rpm (dinked) adaptor (the part of this that sits on the underside of the light-weight upper platter) was resting against the top of the new heavy platter and not allowing the light-weight upper platter to drop fully to rest against the rubber ’dots’. Maybe the ‘well’ on the top of the heavy platter isn’t as deep as the one on the other one.
Luckily, due to the way it was designed, I was able to flip this mounting plate over and fix the issue.
Kevin
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Tony L
Administrator
The strobe mask (the little black metal plate above the strobe window) needs flipping over.
What bolts have you used to mount the heavy platter to the spindle? If the heads are proud they can interfere as you describe, if level with the recess there should be no issue. Similarly the machine screws that hold the dinked adapter in place need to be right, if they are too long they’ll hit. No issues with the proper Thorens ones, problems only occur is they’ve been replaced at any time with non-standard ones.
PS This is assuming your light alloy top-platter is flat. Sadly many aren’t. They are very, very fragile.
What bolts have you used to mount the heavy platter to the spindle? If the heads are proud they can interfere as you describe, if level with the recess there should be no issue. Similarly the machine screws that hold the dinked adapter in place need to be right, if they are too long they’ll hit. No issues with the proper Thorens ones, problems only occur is they’ve been replaced at any time with non-standard ones.
PS This is assuming your light alloy top-platter is flat. Sadly many aren’t. They are very, very fragile.
Wouldn’t this be the setting for 60 Hz rather than 50 Hz, or does it have other functions?
The bolts attaching the spindle to the platter are the ones that were originally attaching the adaptor plate to the spindle on the original platter. They are actually recessed below the surface of the new platter.
The screws holding the dinked adaptor in place don’t protrude through the plate. The plate isn’t completely flat as the screw holes are pressed into it, creating dimples. It’s the dimples that create the extra height which causes the problem.
I flipped the plate over and at first thought there was nothing visible, until I noticed that I needed to view the strobe from a different angle to before. Working as expected now.
Odd though, that the 50Hz strobe track would be on the opposite side on different platters.
Mike P
Trade: Pickwell Audio
Alf's motor had been fitted with some non standard motor suspension bobbins which were completely perished and one had failed in transit when he bought it. It was therefore decided that the motor would be upgraded to the longer mk2 studs and my motor suspension springs fitted.
Things got a bit more complicated when I realised that the screws used to secure the motor together were not original and not metric threads, so the new Audiosilente motor studs wouldn't work with them. So another order was placed with Simone for some motor screws.
With all the requisite parts now here I did the motor rebuild last night. The original motor bushes were in good condition and were reused. they were carefully cleaned and loaded with fresh oil, firstly by allowing them to cool in a hot oil bath and then again by vacuum just to be doubly sure they'd taken up as much fresh oil as possible. It really is alarming how much filth you can get out of the old bushes!
The motor was also treated to a one of my nylatron thrust pads, a grade 5 ceramic ball, a set of my felt washers and all screwed together with stainless fasteners.
20240410_202227 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr
Things got a bit more complicated when I realised that the screws used to secure the motor together were not original and not metric threads, so the new Audiosilente motor studs wouldn't work with them. So another order was placed with Simone for some motor screws.
With all the requisite parts now here I did the motor rebuild last night. The original motor bushes were in good condition and were reused. they were carefully cleaned and loaded with fresh oil, firstly by allowing them to cool in a hot oil bath and then again by vacuum just to be doubly sure they'd taken up as much fresh oil as possible. It really is alarming how much filth you can get out of the old bushes!
The motor was also treated to a one of my nylatron thrust pads, a grade 5 ceramic ball, a set of my felt washers and all screwed together with stainless fasteners.
20240410_202227 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr
Nagraboy
Ausculta fili
@kevinrt
Have to say, the iron platter seems a lot tricker to install than is often stated here. I see you ran into some problems with yours. Although I’d be curious to try one it’s put me off getting one even more, although as I use an SPU it might not be ideal anyway.
I‘ve had my 124 for over two years now and all seems fine, but do wonder what a good overhaul would deliver.
Have to say, the iron platter seems a lot tricker to install than is often stated here. I see you ran into some problems with yours. Although I’d be curious to try one it’s put me off getting one even more, although as I use an SPU it might not be ideal anyway.
I‘ve had my 124 for over two years now and all seems fine, but do wonder what a good overhaul would deliver.
The problems I had were quite easy to fix with a little thought and advice, but it wasn’t a simple, drop-in replacement for me.
Mike P
Trade: Pickwell Audio
I have seen an iron platter where the area that sits against the spindle only had a small totally flat portion in the centre and then further out it's was slightly convex. So if you tightened just one screw fully before the others it could pull the platter out of level.
If the three retaining screws are done up each a little at a time it keeps everything in alignment. It sounds worse that it is. Anyone with mechanical aptitude would automatically do the screws up a bit at a time without even thinking about it and then it's a non issue.
Mine is totally flat and I can simply drop it on like Tony can with his.
Beyond that you just need to flip the strobe blanking plate and readjust the clutch.
If the three retaining screws are done up each a little at a time it keeps everything in alignment. It sounds worse that it is. Anyone with mechanical aptitude would automatically do the screws up a bit at a time without even thinking about it and then it's a non issue.
Mine is totally flat and I can simply drop it on like Tony can with his.
Beyond that you just need to flip the strobe blanking plate and readjust the clutch.
Tony L
Administrator
I’m sure it didn’t leave the factory like that. There is a fault condition that exists, I assume corrosion of some nature that can have disastrous results. I’ve seen this one first hand (my photo, my room, thankfully not my platter!):
I’ve no idea how it ended up in that state, but it is clearly a write-off. Looks like it just expanded somehow. Hopefully no one else gets to see one in such a sorry state. Mine is spot on, just stick it on and there is no run-out I can detect. It sits perfectly flat and true. A truly beautiful casting.
Mike P
Trade: Pickwell Audio
What I'm describing wasn't like the pic above. The area that contacts the spindle flange had a totally flat area that was less wide than the spindle flange. As such it was possible to pull the platter out of level if you did just one screw up fully tight as it could make the platter rock slightly. I don't know why it was like that but it was still totally useable if you did the screws up evenly.
Mike P
Trade: Pickwell Audio
While I'm waiting for the iron platter to arrive for Alf's unit I've been getting on with a couple of other rebuilds, a really tidy MK2 belonging to Mark and a MK1 for Simon that has been refinished in gloss black.
Here's a pic of Simon's taken shorty after it first arrived.
20240328_194346 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr
It's another Schopper restored unit and is fitted with a Schopper bearing and a Swissonor non magnetic platter.
Here's a pic of Simon's taken shorty after it first arrived.
20240328_194346 by Michael Pickwell, on FlickrIt's another Schopper restored unit and is fitted with a Schopper bearing and a Swissonor non magnetic platter.