Amps, current, ohms and whatnot.

[Darth Vader]

How many amperes do they deliver?

By mk2 100w do you mean the hx100? Or is there an hx75 mk2? What about the 1.2 mk2?

Thing is there don't appear to be any available used and various "wanted" ads on hifiwigwam.

In my case you probably didn't realise that a burst of 22.5KW into 1 Ohm means a current of 150A - and thats limited by the electronics to that so as to protect the output transistors.

These amps are a steal at around £1400-1500 for a ten yo model.

I would say that you need a couple of HX1.2 as a minimum so as to drive the Hawks well. If you have space for Hawks then you have space for the amps. You need both. I don't have space for Hawks but I can accomodate two big 42Kg amps.

I have never heard a good class D amp. The ones I have heard were designed for pa work like those from crown. A lot of power in a small lightweight package but far from HiFi.

Cheers,

DV

 

[tommyt]

In my case you probably didn't realise that a burst of 22.5KW into 1 Ohm means a current of 150A - and thats limited by the electronics to that so as to protect the output transistors.

These amps are a steal at around £1400-1500 for a ten yo model.

Sorry, i've lost track - which amps do you have and which ones are you referring to here?

I would say that you need a couple of HX1.2 as a minimum so as to drive the Hawks well. If you have space for Hawks then you have space for the amps. You need both. I don't have space for Hawks but I can accomodate two big 42Kg amps.

Two! I cant even find one for sale!

Lets hope I do have the space. My living room is 6m x 5m and the dining/kitchen is open plan off to the side. I have space for big amps but would rather find something that fits into the media unit we've already had built. An HX1.2 would actually fit.

I have never heard a good class D amp. The ones I have heard were designed for pa work like those from crown. A lot of power in a small lightweight package but far from HiFi.
Cheers,
DV

I've not heard one yet - I'll have to do it for myself at some point. I get the impression the technology is catching up.

 

[tommyt]

Build some Hypex nc400 mono blocks, they are better suited to low impedance loads than the nc500.

8 Ohms: 200W
4 Ohms: 400W
2 Ohms: 580W

Have a read of some reviews, they really are fantastic amps and I've never heard of them struggling even with a difficult load.

Interesting - is there a prebuilt version or only kits?

 

[James]

Power amps that handle this will be big, heavy and pricey. My own amps can provide >1600Wpc into 4 Ohms continuous and a short term burst of 22.5KW into 1 Ohm. They do weigh in at 42Kg apiece!

Yawn. Your willy will fall off if you keep waving it at every opportunity.

 

[James]

How many amperes do they deliver?

By mk2 100w do you mean the hx100? Or is there an hx75 mk2? What about the 1.2 mk2?

Enough, I suspect. DV amps are often sold alongside Shahinian loudspeakers.

The HX-1.2mk2 is fabulous. Can't tell how many amps mine pumps out, but it sounds sublime.

 

[Nick1881]

Interesting - is there a prebuilt version or only kits?

As far as I know the nc400 is for DIY only and isn't allowed to be sold in a pre-built version.

The DIY option is very easy though, you can buy a case from Hypex here https://www.hypexshop.com/ or even as a complete kit, all cables and connectors are supplied, just screw them in and wire up. A little bit of soldering may be required.

Or buy the amp module and PSU, (all cables are supplied with them)
Then buy this case http://ghentaudio.com/kit/ncore-mx3.html crimp on the XLR input connections, everything else is solderless or done for you.

It's a bargain price amp that will give £5k+ amps a run for their money.

 

[Darth Vader]

Yawn. Your willy will fall off if you keep waving it at every opportunity.

You are coming across as a loser. If you have followed things I have said which I doubt I'd love to replace my amps with something smaller and lighter. I have said this for many years.

Unlike some I have no attachment to any manufacturer. I just want the best for reasonable money.

Then you also come across as someone who just doesn't understand what I am trying to teach newcomers.

Cheers,

DV

 

[martin clark]

Yebbut DV:

James knows more than most about speaker design vs efficacy vs efficiency vs voltage sensitivity

and

You prefer speakers with a near-criminally-low efficiency, also notably, even exceptionally-low impedance across most of the midband, and a 'house' EQ response that further depresses apparent Loudness to get orchestral 'far field' response by the designer's express intent.

It's not that one is right or wrong - just no wonder you require arc-welder amp capability, where very many really do not.

 

[Joe P]

Joe

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

I listen to broad range. I have LCD soundsystem on at the moment. Metallica yesterday. Kings of convenience on the day before that. Classical piano or Ben Howard when I want to relax.

I haven't actually seen any amps with a higher current rating than my Roksan - mostly because they don't actually specify.

I'd guess that the Metallica - paticularly on CD - would be fairly heavily level-compressed. So the most likely to need sustained power rather than peaks. However against that you'd probably melt the speakers if you went too high. Speaker power ratings generally make assumptions which mean they aren't 'sustained for very long' values.

In general, though, the peak current ability is a good guide. But, yes, some makers don't quote this so you'd need to see if there was a review which measured it.

 

[Guest432]

How many amperes do they deliver?

By mk2 100w do you mean the hx100? Or is there an hx75 mk2? What about the 1.2 mk2?

Thing is there don't appear to be any available used and various "wanted" ads on hifiwigwam.

You won't be able to find those specs, the DV designer is a bit of a character and provides specs like "weight - heavy enough to stop papers blowing away"

HX75 mk1 = 75 watts
HX75 mk2 = 100 watts
HX1.2 mk1 = 130 watts
HX1.2 mk2 = 180 watts
HX100 = 180 watts

I've owned both the HX75 and HX1.2 and there is a markable improvement going between them, with Hawks I would suggest the HX1.2 mk2 or HX100 and as already suggested make the space for it.

 

[Tony L]

It's not that one is right or wrong - just no wonder you require arc-welder amp capability, where very many really do not.

FWIW I could almost certainly get higher actual volume levels with my 2.3 Watt SET and La Scalas! In fact if I brought the 10 Watt Leak down I could likely remove my ability to hear permanently!

 

[Snufkin]

You won't be able to find those specs, the DV designer is a bit of a character and provides specs like "weight - heavy enough to stop papers blowing away"

HX75 mk1 = 75 watts
HX75 mk2 = 100 watts
HX1.2 mk1 = 130 watts
HX1.2 mk2 = 180 watts
HX100 = 180 watts

I've owned both the HX75 and HX1.2 and there is a markable improvement going between them, with Hawks I would suggest the HX1.2 mk2 or HX100 and as already suggested make the space for it.

My experience is similar in going from an HX75 mk2 to a HX1.2 mk2 BUT if volume (sound level) is not an issue the HX75 is the bargain in that line up (if you can find one). It has much of its bigger brothers qualities but is usually more affordable and is about the same size as a NAP250. However the difference between a NAP250 and an HX75 is not subtle; it was one of the few audio upgrades I made that required no second thoughts or deliberation. I don't really have a clue what DV do to make their amps so special but whatever it is it works.

 

[dtd]

I listen to broad range. I have LCD soundsystem on at the moment. Metallica yesterday. Kings of convenience on the day before that. Classical piano or Ben Howard when I want to relax.

I haven't actually seen any amps with a higher current rating than my Roksan - mostly because they don't actually specify.

If you listen to a wide range of music, then you may possibly want something neutral, of which the hypex ncores with the right buffers will do the trick.

The NC500s have a peak current limit of 28A per channel and I've been running a pair of Kef Blades (which have 4x 9" woofer cones and drop down to 2.8 ohms min) with no issues whatsover. Reins in the speaker at 100db+ no problem. Unless your speakers are particularly current hungry / stupidly low impedenance designs I'd not panic too much about having 100amps+. I've had amps that go well beyond Class A/B designed 100amps+ instanteanous, but I had moved on speakers to a much more benign load, and realised that in reality 1w performance for myself was far more important than 100amp+ peak designs hence I've been an ncore convert since 2012.

I would suggest the NC500s over the NC400s. There has been some improvements to the power output stage improving the critical 1w performance even more so. Its noticeable in a well setup system + room.

 

[dtd]

It should be mentioned there's a VERY good reason that even the likes of NAD, Marantz, Theta Digital, Bel Canto and even ATI amplifiers have conceeded and now utilise the Hypex NCore or UCD series as their power amplifier of choice in their modern designs.

 

[LarsS]

It should be mentioned there's a VERY good reason that even the likes of NAD, Marantz, Theta Digital, Bel Canto and even ATI amplifiers have conceeded and now utilise the Hypex NCore or UCD series as their power amplifier of choice in their modern designs.

Yes, and some of the reasons being environment regulations, see power consumption idle aso.

Built nCore NC400 monoblocks a few years ago, drove my Evolution Acoustics MicroOnes speakers with them, picture prior sale here (LarsSt) - - > http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105438.msg1190170#msg1190170

Obviously it's all down to system, may fare well in some systems. In my system and to my ears the nCores's were sterile and lifeless if that makes any sense. Now sold and replaced by A/B integrated amp.

 

[Darth Vader]

It should be mentioned there's a VERY good reason that even the likes of NAD, Marantz, Theta Digital, Bel Canto and even ATI amplifiers have conceeded and now utilise the Hypex NCore or UCD series as their power amplifier of choice in their modern designs.

Hmmm Meridian has recently announced its top reference power amp the 857 that looks rather like an updated 559.

https://www.meridian-audio.com/medi...l-power-amplifier-data-sheet-final-151216.pdf

Its 10Kg lighter too possibly due to the use of aluminium.

Cheers,

DV

 

[dtd]

Yes, and some of the reasons being environment regulations, see power consumption idle aso.

Built nCore NC400 monoblocks a few years ago, drove my Evolution Acoustics MicroOnes speakers with them, picture prior sale here (LarsSt) - - > http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105438.msg1190170#msg1190170

Obviously it's all down to system, may fare well in some systems. In my system and to my ears the nCores's were sterile and lifeless if that makes any sense. Now sold and replaced by A/B integrated amp.

IIRC your speakers were a particularly cruel load indeed, so yeah not entirely shocking the ncores didn't work well there.

RE: Idle Power consumption, not usually the critical reason. I doubt buyers of the NC1200 based Theta or Bel Canto amps are too worried about idle power consumption.

 

[dtd]

Hmmm Meridian has recently announced its top reference power amp the 857 that looks rather like an updated 559.

https://www.meridian-audio.com/medi...l-power-amplifier-data-sheet-final-151216.pdf

Its 10Kg lighter too possibly due to the use of aluminium.

Cheers,

DV

Interesting, there's no reference to max current capability this time. Meridian have apparently used Hypex power amplifier modules in the past.

The power profiles quoted do correlate with the Hypex profiles (including the bridged values). As does the description as to how linearity is achieved. Another Hypex design win? Any idea of price?

 

[LarsS]

IIRC your speakers were a particularly cruel load indeed, so yeah not entirely shocking the ncores didn't work well there.

Indeed, you're absolutely right, the EA MicroOnes are very current hungry. nCore's delivers 26 Amp peak which is probably fine for most speakers.

My current integrated amp delivers 36 Amp cont. and 150 Amp peak, however driving my Gauder Akustik Arcona 100 speakers. The EA's now reside in second setup driven by an old 11 Kg heavy Onkyo A5-VL integrated amp (Class D). Not sure on what conclusion to make - I'm happy with the combo Onkyo & EA MicroOne, not so with the nCore's.

Difference between the Onkyo & nCore's is the PSU. Old fashioned heavy transformer based in the Onkyo.
Looking for an Onkyo A1-VL now.