Cav
pfm Member
Is there such a thing?And the law was constructed with the prevailing religious mood of the country in mind.
Is there such a thing?And the law was constructed with the prevailing religious mood of the country in mind.
It's not just about pain management (if it can be achieved) - as @Somafunk so clearly explained it's about dignity and quality of life.We already have end of life care, both my parents at the end of their lives but were given medication to prevent suffering. Neither of them suffered & drifted away in their sleep, so why do we need it.
brilliant point raga , and sums up one of the problemsThis is a tough one with so many variables to take into account.
I will give one personal example of where this system could break down.
My sister's friend's mom was given a couple of weeks to live by her doctor at the hospital, this was around 10 years ago, after a cancer diagnosis a few months earlier. She had come to terms, if one can come to terms. Her daughter requested a second opinion, which she was intitled to & the doctor offered a different route to medication, she is still alive today.
We have to be very careful with this.
My father certainly didn't "not suffer" during the last months of his life. Despite all the drugs they were able to give him it was patently obvious he was in constant pain. My mother had to watch him suffering every day, praying it would end.This is where it gets complicated, plus decisions made by individual doctors on the prognosis of individual cases, it's a minefield. Plus the current state of the NHS service where individual cases are reviewed under extreme pressure. Who is going to keep a track on this. The elderly were sent back to care homes during the pandemic, under NHS guidance, it had tragic consequences.
We already have end of life care, both my parents at the end of their lives but were given medication to prevent suffering. Neither of them suffered & drifted away in their sleep, so why do we need it.
According to CPS, in the last 13 years, most investigations of assisted suicide do not lead to prosecutions and there have been only 4 convictions. They do not say whether these were trips to Dignitas, but I suspect they were not.The biggest impediment however is those who feel they have become a burden, and who would opt, unnecessarily, to end their lives. Nevertheless, this is something that can be overcome if the determination exists. Of course, no system of checks and balances will ever be 100% watertight, but weighed against the fact that many are currently condemned to long, painful deaths, tips it for me.
Yes finegan , you make such a good point . many elderly seeing their families burdened and suffereing with their care may well feel obligated to take this route
Currently though I would certainly be thinking of Zurich if i was diagnosed with MND , as i mentioned a colleague at work was there perfectly normal one day and the next we heard she had gone to Zurich after this occured . It was quite a shock really . I must say i wouldnt want anyone prosecuted for coming with me which i think seems to be the case at the moment .
very tricky
Because this:We already have end of life care, both my parents at the end of their lives but were given medication to prevent suffering. Neither of them suffered & drifted away in their sleep, so why do we need it.
My father certainly didn't "not suffer" during the last months of his life. Despite all the drugs they were able to give him it was patently obvious he was in constant pain. My mother had to watch him suffering every day, praying it would end.
FWIW when Mum's breathing finally failed and she was taken into hospital it was all over within a few hours. She passed with my Dad, who she adored, by her side holding her hand. I can't say it was a blessing but it's at least some comfort.As mentioned before some conditions are very hard to achieve a peaceful death despite clinicians best endeavors . MND is one of them and so is mesothelioma
Gosh Copper ... ABSOLUTELY NOT , adequate pain control is TOP priority ,whatever gave you that idea !!!One of the underlying issues here is that in the presumably litigation conscious NHS, adequate pain control for the terminally ill is no longer provided. As a result there is undoubtedly a fairly significant level of unnecessary suffering experienced by those patients.
Gosh Copper ... ABSOLUTELY NOT , adequate pain control is TOP priority ,whatever gave you that idea !!!
https://www.goldstandardsframework.org.uk/preparing-for-the-end-of-life-information-for-carers
well i couldnt find a way to link it with the gold standards framework video sadly , but it just gives the flavour of what GSF is aboutUnfortunately on an admittedly brief look at your link, I can’t see anything relevant there.
My comments are based on my observation and experience with terminally ill friends and family where the comment from the nursing staff on more than one occasion was to the effect “ sorry we can’t give you any more pain relief as we have given you all we are allowed to…”
Unfortunately you are in essence confirming my statement.well i couldnt find a way to link it with the gold standards framework video sadly , but it just gives the flavour of what GSF is about
And yes it can be incredibly frustrating in hospitals when they say they cant give any more pain killers , earlier this year i spent many days visiting a friend in hospital and i got extremely agitated when the guy was in pain ... he wasnt categorized as terminal but the only way he got any painkillers was because i was a total pain in the arse about it and nagged until they put a drip in and gave him something
in hospitals so often their focus is `cure ` and its jolly hard to get out of that mindset when someone has terminal cancer or terminal heart failure or something . And even in one of Europes biggest hospitals costing billions i found it hard to get a palliative care person to see my friend , fortunately i have friends in that field and they were incredibly supportive