P&O Ferries Scandal

[lagavullin10y]

That would be illegal in the UK

That’s the whole problem of the Brit’s.
Endless debating the rules, no action. Even sports serve that holy grail: debating rules. Hamiltons defeat recently was a great example of it.

throw a stone through those nice Westminster windows. Don’t accept it. Become a little bit more French - a country without an aristocracy unlike the uk.

 

[ks.234]

That’s the whole problem of the Brit’s.
Endless debating the rules, no action. Even sports serve that holy grail: debating rules. Hamiltons defeat recently was a great example of it.

throw a stone through those nice Westminster windows. Don’t accept it. Become a little bit more French - a country without an aristocracy unlike the uk.

Personally I feel that having an hereditary head of state is symbolic of a deficit in our democracy. Having someone to explicitly ‘rule over us’ runs contrary to the basic idea of democracy.

 

[ff1d1l]

Personally I feel that having an hereditary head of state is symbolic of a deficit in our democracy. Having someone to explicitly ‘rule over us’ runs contrary to the basic idea of democracy.

Not like we'd have anything like democracy if we abolished them, though.

 

[Mystic Mac]

That’s the whole problem of the Brit’s.
Endless debating the rules, no action. Even sports serve that holy grail: debating rules. Hamiltons defeat recently was a great example of it.

throw a stone through those nice Westminster windows. Don’t accept it. Become a little bit more French - a country without an aristocracy unlike the uk.

First-past-the-post..... Royal Family.... Etonians........ Weak trade unions. All symptoms of an undemocratic nation.
My partner is French and she cannot believe how docile the Brits are. More militancy is required.

 

[ks.234]

First-past-the-post..... Royal Family.... Etonians........ Weak trade unions. All symptoms of an undemocratic nation.
My partner is French and she cannot believe how docile the Brits are. More militancy is required.

The Brits seem to accept that politics is something that is done to them. Maybe the French feel that politics is something that belongs to them

 

[SteveS1]

First-past-the-post..... Royal Family.... Etonians........ Weak trade unions. All symptoms of an undemocratic nation.
My partner is French and she cannot believe how docile the Brits are. More militancy is required.

Many of them are far from docile, they believed (possibly still do in some cases) that Johnson is for them and trotted up, bent over and the results are being revealed.

 

[Tony L]

First-past-the-post..... Royal Family.... Etonians........ Weak trade unions. All symptoms of an undemocratic nation.
My partner is French and she cannot believe how docile the Brits are. More militancy is required.

Early warning signs of fascism:

• Powerful and continuing nationalism
• Disdain for human rights
• Identification of enemies as a unifying cause
• Supremacy of the military
• Rampant sexism
• Controlled mass media
• Obsession with national security
• Religion and government intertwined
• Corporate power protected
• Labour power suppressed
• Disdain for intellectuals & the arts
• Obsession with crime & punishment
• Rampant cronyism & corruption
• Fraudulent elections

A very well quoted list, but here’s a link/citation (Independent).

Frightening just how many we can tick off with Johnson’s government. I suspect France understands the warning signs a lot better and will stop short of allowing it power.

 

[Nick_G]

Early warning signs of fascism:

• Powerful and continuing nationalism
• Disdain for human rights
• Identification of enemies as a unifying cause
• Supremacy of the military
• Rampant sexism
• Controlled mass media
• Obsession with national security
• Religion and government intertwined
• Corporate power protected
• Labour power suppressed
• Disdain for intellectuals & the arts
• Obsession with crime & punishment
• Rampant cronyism & corruption
• Fraudulent elections

A very well quoted list, but here’s a link/citation (Independent).

Frightening just how many we can tick off with Johnson’s government. I suspect France understands the warning signs a lot better and will stop short of allowing it power.

Early warning signs of Putinism as well...

 

[Tony L]

Early warning signs of Putinism as well...

I view Putin as a fascist. Nothing more, nothing less. He is where the likes of Trump, Farage, Johnson etc inevitably lead. The totalitarian end-point of the nationalism, xenophobia, division, demonising & scapegoating, authoritarianism, erosion of human rights & civil liberties, grasping self-interest, elitism, corruption etc lead. It is a well trodden path.

 

[ks.234]

“A P&O Ferries ship is being held in Northern Ireland because it is "unfit to sail", nine days after the company sacked 800 workers without notice”

Excellent

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60881550

 

[davidsrsb]

Politicians who said nothing months ago, rush to be seen doing something.
Getting close to the May elections may not be a coincidence

 

[lagavullin10y]

I keep reading Grand Schnapps - which I quite like.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Hearing reports that the government plans to change the rules so ferries operating out of UK ports must pay minimum wage. I think I said something similar several pages ago. It's obviously an encouraging development, if somewhat overdue. But I can't help wondering if the ferry operators will find ways to circumvent it. The most likely one, to my mind, would be to charge staff 'board and lodging' for the time they spend living aboard.

 

[Finnegan]

Hearing reports that the government plans to change the rules so ferries operating out of UK ports must pay minimum wage. I think I said something similar several pages ago. It's obviously an encouraging development, if somewhat overdue. But I can't help wondering if the ferry operators will find ways to circumvent it. The most likely one, to my mind, would be to charge staff 'board and lodging' for the time they spend living aboard.

Yes but I heard the RMT guy saying they would not accept reinstatement of their sacked members on minimum wage in lieu of the wages they had been on prior to being dismissed.

I’m beginning to wonder if this wasn’t P&O’s strategy all along, to bust the collective bargaining agreement and have all their seafarers on minimum wage.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Yes but I heard the RMT guy saying they would not accept reinstatement of their sacked members on minimum wage in lieu of the wages they had been on prior to being dismissed.

I’m beginning to wonder if this wasn’t P&O’s strategy all along, to bust the collective bargaining agreement and have all their seafarers on minimum wage.

Seems like a slightly flawed strategy, to me, if so. They've trashed their reputation, probably cost themselves millions in crew retraining, and made people like me determined to use an alternative carrier wherever possible in future. They've also thrown a spotlight on some of the iniquities in the seafaring world. No idea if the scrutiny will last, but it's probably going to lodge in the public consciousness somewhere.

 

[ks.234]

Seems like a slightly flawed strategy, to me, if so. They've trashed their reputation, probably cost themselves millions in crew retraining, and made people like me determined to use an alternative carrier wherever possible in future. They've also thrown a spotlight on some of the iniquities in the seafaring world. No idea if the scrutiny will last, but it's probably going to lodge in the public consciousness somewhere.

Totally agree. Grant Scahpps is empowering P&O, and punishing P&O workers. If Schapps or this government had any integrity they would insist on the reinstatement of the sacked workers on their existing terms as a bare minimum. They should also be forced to pay those illegally sacked workers compensation equal to that which they’ve already paid out in ‘severance’ and still face a criminal proceeding for breaking UK law.

 

[Bob McC]

In this instance P & O have not committed any criminal offences for which they can be prosecuted.
Sadly.

 

[Monitor Gold 10]

First-past-the-post..... Royal Family.... Etonians........ Weak trade unions. All symptoms of an undemocratic nation.
My partner is French and she cannot believe how docile the Brits are. More militancy is required.

I agree with you on this. It isn't easy though. I've been fighting for various things at my current workplace for about eight years now.

It is tiring.

I've no energy today for example. Still in bed because often, one must fight alone. There's no back up. On top of which, a number of colleagues take it for granted that I'll fix the latest shit that goes wrong.

 

[Mystic Mac]

I agree with you on this. It isn't easy though.

I've no energy today for example. Still in bed because often, one must fight alone. There's no back up. On top of which, a number of colleagues take it for granted that I'll fix the latest shit that goes wrong.

I feel your pain my friend.

There are so many angles to this.

Thatcher started by crushing trade unions and weakening workers rights. She also pushed the nonsense of -there is no such thing as society, just individual men and women-
The Darwinian type capitalism that we are currently enduring is a symptom of such an ideology.

For me, evidence that the above is a regressive and harmful (for workers not employers) approach can be seen with our Scandinavian neighbours, who enjoy a better quality of life because they pursue the 3rd way.
High wages, high taxes, high quality public services & transport, high quality education.

 

[Brian]

I feel your pain my friend.

There are so many angles to this.

Thatcher started by crushing trade unions and weakening workers rights. She also pushed the nonsense of -there is no such thing as society, just individual men and women-
The Darwinian type capitalism that we are currently enduring is a symptom of such an ideology.

For me, evidence that the above is a regressive and harmful (for workers not employers) approach can be seen with our Scandinavian neighbours, who enjoy a better quality of life because they pursue the 3rd way.
High wages, high taxes, high quality public services & transport, high quality education.

Spot on.