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Kii....the future??

You were actually asking for a discount for a good review? Or are you still insinuating? Either way it doesn't reflect well on you.
 
One thing that interests me is the role of subwoofers in systems with these new speakers. I have, in the past, run multiple subs to smooth the response at the listening position but wonder if the design of speakers such as Dutch & Dutch 8c that leverages the front wall reflection removes the need for subwoofers. Is this the case? Or is it correct to assume that other modes (i.e., height, width, tangential) will remain important and thus multiple subs remains a decent option for smooth in room response. Any thoughts?
 
You can still use subs to even out the room response. The Dutch & Dutch 8c and 8m make this especially easy with a dedicated subwoofer output on each speaker and a variety of EQ and filter options.
 
aps said:
One thing that interests me is the role of subwoofers
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From what Keith (Purite) has said, D&D are fans of using subs for distributed bass, even with the 8c's.

I'd be interested to understand what degree of crossover and filter slope flexibility there is with the 8c's and if there's eq per sub channel, which I find invaluable for 'distributing' bass energy in my setup.
 
aps said:
One thing that interests me is the role of subwoofers in systems with these new speakers. I have, in the past, run multiple subs to smooth the response at the listening position but wonder if the design of speakers such as Dutch & Dutch 8c that leverages the front wall reflection removes the need for subwoofers. Is this the case? Or is it correct to assume that other modes (i.e., height, width, tangential) will remain important and thus multiple subs remains a decent option for smooth in room response. Any thoughts?
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The rear drivers in the 8cs are stated to be subwoofers and are designed to be used at less than 80cm and ideally 10cm from the wall behind them. But they will still be a metre or so above the floor, which isn’t usually where you would choose to put a sub. Can’t see any reason why they will excite room modes any more or less than any other sub, though you don’t have the same freedom to position them as with a discrete sub, but one would hope that they would integrate better and the onboard eq might have advantages. And of course if your wall isn’t solid, but plasterboard, you are going to have a ghastly drum.
 
DNM said:
From what Keith (Purite) has said, D&D are fans of using subs for distributed bass, even with the 8c's.
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D&D manufactures its own rather special subwoofer...

https://dutchdutch.com/s18c

DNM said:
I'd be interested to understand what degree of crossover and filter slope flexibility there is with the 8c's and if there's eq per sub channel, which I find invaluable for 'distributing' bass energy in my setup.
Click to expand...

I can let you know the specifics when I get mine back. They are currently out on loan. However, I can confirm that there is independent subwoofer EQ for each channel.
 
DNM said:
From what Keith (Purite) has said, D&D are fans of using subs for distributed bass, even with the 8c's.

I'd be interested to understand what degree of crossover and filter slope flexibility there is with the 8c's and if there's eq per sub channel, which I find invaluable for 'distributing' bass energy in my setup.
Click to expand...
Subwoofer integration and EQ are included and adjustable from the app, the 8C doesn’t need a sub because it is already full range but I Must get around to trying subs destructively .
Keith
 
Strictly Stereo said:
D&D manufactures its own rather special subwoofer...

https://dutchdutch.com/s18c
Click to expand...

Eek! WAF was clearly not in the design brief. Not sure a vase would look very good on that. :)

I can let you know the specifics when I get mine back. They are currently out on loan. However, I can confirm that there is independent subwoofer EQ for each channel.
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Thanks. Can both C's and M's integrate two or just the one sub?
 
Purité Audio said:
Subwoofer integration and EQ are included and adjustable from the app, the 8C doesn’t need a sub because it is already full range but I Must get around to trying subs destructively .
Keith
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Yes understood, but are the 8c's high passed and is it possible to alter the crossover? IIRC, the Kii's don't correct bass below 40-50hz? so if the 8c's are similar, makes sense to use subs if there are bass issues that can't be solved by main speaker positioning.
 
DNM said:
Thanks. Can both C's and M's integrate two or just the one sub?
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Each 8c and 8m speaker has a single mono subwoofer output. Theoretically, you could split the output or chain multiple external subwoofers together, but they will all get the same signal from the speaker.
 
SteveH said:
Some on this thread have said they can’t be repaired. My understanding is they have a 5-year guarantee. If they evaporate after that then whatevs; I’ve had fabulous music for 5-years. I was telling my wife just last night that I consider them great value given their performance and the fact that I don’t needs amps/Dacs etc. Will other speakers better them in time and for less money; of course. I’m not prepared to sit around waiting for that to happen just to save a few quid. I’ll buy a smaller car instead. Some have said the Kef LS50s are similar. Yes they are, and they do an awful lot for 2K, but when I auditioned them hoping to get Kii performance for a fifth of the price it was self-evident there would be no cigar. Not even close. The Kiis cost a ton more than my old system, a system I lived with blissfully for years but you can’t “unhear” a piece of kit unfortunately.

So, that’s my take on the Kiis, based on having heard them and owned them. I’m happy as Larry and listening to a lot of music. As ever YMMV, but hear them first.
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I have tried Kii 3s at home (thanks to Lee at Strictly Stereo) and very good they are too.

A pair of passive LS50s with my own bass extenders is rather better though. However the LS50s need a bit of eq (-2dB at 2.5Khz is the main one) to snap into focus/tune.

I now firmly believe that very accurate frequency response (and power response) is vital for superb sound.
 
Strictly Stereo said:
Each 8c and 8m speaker has a single mono subwoofer output. Theoretically, you could split the output or chain multiple external subwoofers together, but they will all get the same signal from the speaker.
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I don't think I made myself clear, I meant to say does each speaker have a sub out, so if that a yes, great, thx.
 
S-Man said:
A pair of passive LS50s with my own bass extenders is rather better though. However the LS50s need a bit of eq (-2dB at 2.5Khz is the main one) to snap into focus/tune.
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Sounds intriguing. What are these bass extenders?
 
Keith, just looked at the D&D site: the 8c are rated from 30hz; the sub says rating is "below 40hz".
I'd hope the subs go into at least the low 20's - otherwise what is the point?
 
Those subs that Lee linked to aren’t meant for the 8Cs, they are from their ‘live sound’ range.
I have asked Martijn about a D&D cardioid sub, they know how to after all!
BW Keith
 
S-Man said:
I have tried Kii 3s at home (thanks to Lee at Strictly Stereo) and very good they are too.

A pair of passive LS50s with my own bass extenders is rather better though. However the LS50s need a bit of eq (-2dB at 2.5Khz is the main one) to snap into focus/tune.

I now firmly believe that very accurate frequency response (and power response) is vital for superb sound.
Click to expand...
I have LS50s here and they are decent little speakers, I can’t for a moment believe that they and a pair of subs ( not properly integrated at that ) are going to have a snowball’s against the Kiis.
Keith
 
S-Man said:
I have tried Kii 3s at home (thanks to Lee at Strictly Stereo) and very good they are too.

A pair of passive LS50s with my own bass extenders is rather better though. However the LS50s need a bit of eq (-2dB at 2.5Khz is the main one) to snap into focus/tune.

I now firmly believe that very accurate frequency response (and power response) is vital for superb sound.
Click to expand...

Having owned one of the flattest (on axis and off axis) response speakers available (Amphion Argon3), I don't think it is as vital as phase response. I'd take a bit of frequency anomalies if they meant a more accurate phase / transient response.
 
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Purité Audio said:
I have LS50s here and they are decent little speakers, I can’t for a moment believe that they and a pair of subs ( not properly integrated at that ) are going to have a snowball’s against the Kiis.
Keith
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"Not properly integrated at that"

How would you know?

I don't care what you believe from one moment to the next. I've had Kii3 at home... they are very good... not quite as good as my own speakers + bass extenders.. which in turn are some considerable way behind LS50s with Eq + bass extenders.
A bit of careful eq of the KEFs takes them from "promising" to "astonishing" when used this way. I've heard it and you haven't, so snowballs to you!
 
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