Kef wireless 50's

[RikC]

One criticism I have of fast AB testing/blind testing is it can take quite a long time, maybe days or weeks, to really get to know a product or a change. All the stuff we listen to tends to be good, so we are looking for fine differences and where these differences reside may not be immediately obvious. As an example take MP3 vs. Lossless. In a fast AB or worse an on-the-fly switch I may be caught out, but once I learned what to listen to I can tell them apart pretty easily (follow the reverb tails and listen to guitar distortion, MP3 can do neither well!). As such I am no fan of this type of quick switch dem and would place little weight on your not "passing" the test. If you really want to know which is best play each for a week and see which one makes you want to play more music/investigate new or seldom played titles. That is the best test IMO. I can sometimes not tell if I've improved something, but after a bit of time it becomes very clear if I've made it worse! Despite that I admire your dedication!

PS The Kefs sound like a winner I like the standard LS50 (assuming a nice big powerful amp is nearby), so I'd expect the actives to be rather good!

Thanks Tony. Going into my 'experiment' I deliberately chose tracks that I was very familiar with and that I've listened to on a number of different systems. I take your point about dialling in to a system for a week or so, however, I couldn't bear to listen to the Naim v1 in the chain for even a couple of hours let alone a week! Don't get me wrong, i really like aspects of what the Naim DAC is doing but it's a bit too forward for my tastes.

For me it was a worthwhile little venture as its confirmed my thoughts about the switch from Naim to this all-in-one Kef. And its a good 'un.

 

[RikC]

Great write up Rik, i had the passive versions and thought they were smashing really.
Same goes for your findings on the different inputs ADC etc, it pretty hard to tell difference between Dacs if they are level matched, anyway i've enjoyed your findings

Thanks

 

[Peg legg]

<sigh> I take the time to do this experiment, post it on here, and the only person who has bothered to respond is a pedant..... It's a big world out there y'know....

I very much appreciate the time you have taken to undertake these tests and evaluation,interesting findings indeed.

 

[Julf]

<sigh> I take the time to do this experiment, post it on here, and the only person who has bothered to respond is a pedant..... It's a big world out there y'know....

Sorry for pointing out part of your conclusion was wrong, but I do appreciate taking the effort - I think there are a lot of people who just go "I know I would hear a difference, so I don't even need to do the test - and blind tests are fundamentally flawed anyway... "

 

[Peg legg]

Had a pair of these for about 3 weeks now and thought I'd add my thoughts.

On paper, and financially, these are a big step down on the numerous seperate set-ups I have had over the last two decade or so. I even had a pair of Avanatgarde Zero 1 Pro digital active horns so have been down a similar 'all-in-one' road before. My room is about 12ft x 9ft and the speakers fire down the room -l

I only use Tidal for my music and so have been using the version built in to the Kef app.
It's not very good - limited options, can be very flakey, slow to respond and has no gapless playback - but I can live with it if it means not having to buy another box and cable for the streaming. If it gets too annoying I'll buy another Auralic (Mini or Aries).

I should add that I can't upgrade the firmware as I don't have a suitable laptop and it can't be done direct from an iPad. Possibly the newer firmware improves things.

I started out with them on some Something Solid open frame stands but changed to some Dyanudio Stand 2 filled with sand and that improved things no end.

The dsp sound adjustments have proven invaluable in tuning them to my room - I have the bass down by 1db and the treble up by 1db.
Today I added a Rel T5 subwoofer, which I bought very cheaply on here, and that has improved things further, not just in terms of slam, but more generally in terms of dynamics, soundstaging and openness. Got my eye on a top of the range Rel sub now.

Anyway in terms of sound quality thay are seriosuly impressive. It is a very well balanced sound - nothing stands out and if there are any weaknesses they aren't obvious. Highlights are the great levels of detail and insight, but not at all bright or fatiguing. Soundstaging and imaging are particularly impressive - the old veils being lifted trick.

Bass, without the subwoofer, was as good as you could reasonably expect from the cabinet size - maybe not the last word in snap and speed but a decent amount of heft.

For the money, indeed even if you have a budget 3 or 4 times greater as I used to have, they really are a superb solution, especially if you mainly stream your music. Hopefully Kef give them the support they need and iron out the little annoyances over the next few months.

Nice minimalist room !
Where's the sub and what's your preferred crossover settings

 

[RikC]

Another new REL/LS50W owner as of this afternoon. Dialed in the Rel T7i and, after a few tweaks via. the app (invert phase, subwoofer attenuation, crossover) it's playing beautifully. I've spent time 'tuning' the sub level to the point where I can no longer easily distinguish it from the Kef doing all the bass. The app makes this kind of real-time comparison very easy.

Xover is at 80hz which seems good enough to me. I did read on another forum that the 5.25 driver does physically start rolling off at 100hz (obviously the active version dynamically changes the load placed on the driver to get a flat response down to sub-60hz).

With the sub in I don't lose any of that fast, tight bass, I get a bit more ambience in the low end and - quite nicely - I think the mid-range has improved too.

 

[Space is the Place]

The app makes this kind of real-time comparison very easy.

Xover is at 80hz which seems good enough to me. I did read on another forum that the 5.25 driver does physically start rolling off at 100hz (obviously the active version dynamically changes the load placed on the driver to get a flat response down to sub-60hz).

With the sub in I don't lose any of that fast, tight bass, I get a bit more ambience in the low end and - quite nicely - I think the mid-range has improved too.

So basically what your saying is the KEF is making its own high pass/low pass filter (to the sub) and you can do it via an app in the KEF software and its adjustable?

I take it there isn't an option for output to dual subs?

 

[Purité Audio]

There is only one 'sub out' at the moment, I will ask if there are plans for multiple subs.
Keith

 

[RikC]

So basically what your saying is the KEF is making its own high pass/low pass filter (to the sub) and you can do it via an app in the KEF software and its adjustable?

I take it there isn't an option for output to dual subs?

Yes, via. the Kef app you enable the 'High Pass Filter' and set its value from 50-120Hz. You also get the option of setting the sub-out low pass frequency the range of which is 40-250Hz (why you'd want to go beyond 100 is beyond me).

And then, of course, you have the sub polarity and sub gain values to play around with too.

Not possible to do stereo subs. Only a single RCA output but you could use a Y-splitter.

 

[Shuggie]

Can the individual LS50Ws be swapped over from left to right, eg the main unit with all the controls becomes the 'left' speaker, with the slave as the 'right' speaker? I would hope that it's done simply in the control app, but does anyone know if this is the case?

 

[Purité Audio]

All the controls are in one speaker, you can place it where you like.
Keith

 

[Shuggie]

But the network connector is labelled 'TO LEFT'. Is that fixed in stone or swappable in the control app? If I wanted to try these things against the regular LS50s, the main speaker would have to be on the left, so that various cables from sources can be plugged in.

 

[Purité Audio]

One speaker is the master the other the slave, input selection , volume can be selected from a touch panel as well as from the remote.
Keith

 

[Shuggie]

Yes, but if its little brain thinks that the master is always playing the right hand channel of the music, then what's the point?

 

[Tony L]

That would be a disaster as John Coltrane would have the drum kit rather than the sax, and I've no idea if he can play that.

 

[RikC]

Sorry for pointing out part of your conclusion was wrong, but I do appreciate taking the effort - I think there are a lot of people who just go "I know I would hear a difference, so I don't even need to do the test - and blind tests are fundamentally flawed anyway... "

All good then

 

[RikC]

Yes, but if its little brain thinks that the master is always playing the right hand channel of the music, then what's the point?

I've not seen, read or heard a way to tell the master speaker that it is the left channel. Don't think it can be done.

 

[Peg legg]

Couple of picture's
Had my pair about 3 months,they have around 200 hours on them
Main source of music is via Tidal or Sugden FM Tuner.
I sold my passive pair and some fancy amplification after hearing the active version. No regrets.

 

[RikC]

Holy crap is that a time machine? How's the sound through the analogs on the Kef? (Presumably very good!)

Are those Custom Design 104's? Look a good fit.

Very nice set up mate.

 

[Peg legg]

Holy crap is that a time machine? How's the sound through the analogs on the Kef? (Presumably very good!)

Are those Custom Design 104's? Look a good fit.

Very nice set up mate.

Hi
Yes Custom Design 104's filled with kiln dried sand.

I haven't listened to the turntable yet,a friend borrowed my Audio Research phono haven't seen it since