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Donald Trump - non American missing the point

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sq225917 said:
Isil are no different to the Nazis, just a power/death cult doing bad things to people in the name of ideology. The people of the areas where they operate are as guilty as the German people were of complicity. We should be doing all we can to support the common man in these parts of the world, not bombing isil.
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I'm not quite sure I follow your argument here. Isil = Nazis, OK. But didn't we defeat the Nazis (in part at least) by bombing them?
 
No problem , just remember that we're discussing ideas and not a particular persons which can be and often are a lovely , caring people.
Trump will tap to the fear . It never fails and Church is doing that for thousands years. He knows that the next attack is imminent and many more will follow. There is nothing on horizon which gives any hope of preventing them.
 
TheDecameron said:
We live in interesting times- that the likes of Trump- a US Presidential candidate FFS!- and Katie Hopkins, minor racist sleb /DM writer, can freely spout race hate propaganda. Things are beginning to turn ugly.
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I'd pay a Sky subscription to see Katie Hopkins publicly beheaded. Crucifixion's too good for her :)
 
Joe Hutch said:
I'm not quite sure I follow your argument here. Isil = Nazis, OK. But didn't we defeat the Nazis (in part at least) by bombing them?
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Surely we did . British air forces were killing the civilians in German cities mercilessly by hundreds of thousands and Russian army committed unspeakable acts of savagery on the conquered German territory. That's war .
ISIL is not a NAZIs . NAZI's were not motivated by religion and the Holly Book.
The only book Isil reads. Also, Nazis had majority of support of German people. Nazi term is only used as a courtesy to good modern Germans.
 
I miss Ivana Trump and her role in the Austin Power's movies.

(For our US contingent in the UK, trump=fart—so read her name out loud).

Stephen
 
limono said:
The only asset of that religion is oil . Without oil the religion would reside in a dark, distant corner of the wasteland
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Most Muslims do not live in the ME, well over 1 billion of us in Asia and Africa.
Fortunately we are taught not to hurt people who insult us.
 
limono said:
You are incorrect . They usually do not spout about race but a religion . Some say it's not a religion but a political system motivated by religion. It is also the only major religion committing medieval acts of genocide , terror and sectarian violence
on a large scale and a thread to personal and civic freedoms wherever it has a major influence. There is nothing to protect that religion from ridicule , criticism and scrutiny or as a matter of fact a ban if it's a treat to a free society which it is..
The only asset of that religion is oil . Without oil the religion would reside in a dark, distant corner of the wasteland .
Hardly anybody dares to criticize the religion though . The devotees are rather quick to cut the throats of criticizers . Therefore it's much better to become a liberal and welcoming -preferably at somebody's else expense.
To quiet down the ugly feeling of own cowardice it usually helps to viciously attack any dissenting voices often joining the forces with alike "freedom fighters "
The saddest fact is that most vocal dissenting voices are usually a patented idiots of unknown or mundane agenda / motives- easy to ridicule.
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Eeek! It must be difficult being in there.
 
limono said:
To quiet down the ugly feeling of own cowardice it usually helps to viciously attack any dissenting voices often joining the forces with alike "freedom fighters "
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There is nothing more cowardly than facists like Trump closing borders, banning entry to certain minorities, scapegoating whole religions etc. The extreme political right has always been rammed full of terrified losers who behave as pack animals at the slightest issue and will happily sacrifice freedom, liberty and decency for a narrow and entirely false sense of personal security. Trump is very cynically exploiting this fear and cowardice to his own end. Anyone who supports him is a chicken-shit loser IMHO. People with any integrity, decency and sense of history would grasp that the freedoms outlined in the US constitution along with the racial and religious diversity upon which the country was built are well worth standing up for. All thinking American people need to unify against racist fascist anti-constitutional bullshit like Trump. The nation is worth so much more than that.
 
limono said:
You are incorrect . They usually do not spout about race but a religion . Some say it's not a religion but a political system motivated by religion. It is also the only major religion committing medieval acts of genocide , terror and sectarian violence
on a large scale and a thread to personal and civic freedoms wherever it has a major influence. There is nothing to protect that religion from ridicule , criticism and scrutiny or as a matter of fact a ban if it's a treat to a free society which it is..
The only asset of that religion is oil . Without oil the religion would reside in a dark, distant corner of the wasteland .
Hardly anybody dares to criticize the religion though . The devotees are rather quick to cut the throats of criticizers . Therefore it's much better to become a liberal and welcoming -preferably at somebody's else expense.
To quiet down the ugly feeling of own cowardice it usually helps to viciously attack any dissenting voices often joining the forces with alike "freedom fighters "
The saddest fact is that most vocal dissenting voices are usually a patented idiots of unknown or mundane agenda / motives- easy to ridicule.
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you're a big fan of the broad brush stroke, eh.

As Chris Herbert - a British soldier who lost a leg during a roadside bomb blast - wrote on Facebook:

"Getting frustrated by some people expecting racism from me, because I got blown up. Here it is:
Yes. A Muslim man blew me up, and I lost my leg.
A Muslim man also lost his arm that day wearing a British Uniform.
A Muslim medic was in the helicopter that took me from the field
A Muslim surgeon performed the surgery that saved my life
A Muslim Nurse was part of the team that helped me when I returned to the UK
A Muslim Healthcare Assistant was part of the team that sorted out my day to day needs in rehabilitation when I was learning to walk
A Muslim taxi driver gave me a free ride the first time I went for a beer with my Dad after I came home.
A Muslim doctor offered my Dad comfort and advice in a pub, when he didnt know how to deal with my medicines and side effects.
Contrary to that,
A white brit spat in my girlfriends face for '****ing a cripple when you could have me [him]'
A White brit pushed my wheelchair away from a lift so he could use it first.
A White brit screamed at my Dad for parking in a disabled bay when I was in the services coming home
(Although, alot of people helped in my recovery! I dont hate white brits either! hahaha)
Point is, **** off. I know who I dislike, and I know who I dont. I know who I appreciate, and I know who I dont. If you want to hate an entire race of men and women for the actions of a few dickheads feel free, but don't push your views on me, thinking I am an easy target because one douchebag decided it was my day to die.
Blaming all Muslims for the actions of groups like Daeshe and the Taliban, is like blaming all Christians for the actions of the KKK or Westboro Baptist Church.
Get a grip of your lives, hug your family and get back to work."
 
Tony L said:
There is nothing more cowardly than facists like Trump closing borders.
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Personally I'm in favour if their closing borders. Provided it's done in order to keep Americans and their peacekeeping forces firmly planted within their territorial waters for the foreseeable future.

I have a number of good American friends but I'm happy to go and visit them over there to bring some light relief. I wonder what would happen over time as they turned in on themselves?
 
Tony L said:
There is nothing more cowardly than facists like Trump closing borders, banning entry to certain minorities, scapegoating whole religions etc. The extreme political right has always been rammed full of terrified losers who behave as pack animals at the slightest issue and will happily sacrifice freedom, liberty and decency for a narrow and entirely false sense of personal security. Trump is very cynically exploiting this fear and cowardice to his own end. Anyone who supports him is a chicken-shit loser IMHO. People with any integrity, decency and sense of history would grasp that the freedoms outlined in the US constitution along with the racial and religious diversity upon which the country was built are well worth standing up for. All thinking American people need to unify against racist fascist anti-constitutional bullshit like Trump. The nation is worth so much more than that.
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good post, Tony, and just to add - there's a strong argument that the US constitution was actually influenced by Islam:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...on-s-quran-how-islam-shaped-the-founders.html
 
I'd like to see Katie Hopkins interviewed by Andrew Neil for half an hour solid. For some reason she was interviewed on the BBC Daily Politics this week, I've no idea why as the opinion of some ignorant media celebrity blow-hard is of no interest, consequence or value, but Neil demolished her in seconds. I'd love to see what he could do in half an hour!
 
Donald Trump is a racist, sexist, nationalist hater of Islam. I am a socialist and believe in free speech. However, I also think you should guard against the modern day equivalent of Hitler potentially getting into power.

Trump has been gaining support from idiots like Katie Hopkins and indirectly The Express and others in the media.

This is why I have signed the petition to keep Trump out of the UK, which has 544,153 signatures so far. If you want to add your one, click here.

Jack
 
Regardless of faith, the mess we are in now, etc. I do feel as an island we are getting rather cramped. The roads, hospitals, everything is bursting with stress. I would be happy if our population went down.

I did sign the Trump petition though as I don't like the guy. He goes to far and is a clown.

But, Katie does have some valid points. I would like to see the Muslim community really come out and rip the shit out of ISIS. They really need to work on their PR. I'd like to see a mass march of Muslims holding placards saying "Not in our name" or similar. I'd like to see much more mass condemnation everywhere - on our streets, in the media, online. Their leaders seem too quiet.
 
QUBIQ said:
I would be happy if our population went down.
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How so? If we reduce our population by restricting immigration, who will pay for all the healthcare and pensions of our ageing population? Or are you suggesting reducing the population by killing off old folks? Our indigenous birth rate certainly can't keep up.

As for the comments on Muslims—I assume you'd like to see the Archbishop of Canterbury lead a mass march of WI and CofE regulars whenever a fundamentalist Christian undertakes an act of terrorism? Which, of course, happens more often in the US than any committed by Muslims.

If a white British atheist commits a crime, am I also guilty of that crime somehow? Or is it only Muslims that applies to?

FWIW I didn't sign the petition. I also believe in free speech, but not the truncated kind we have in Europe. We counter extremism by argument IMHO.

Stephen
 
There is something really unpleasant about the way we are talking about 'muslims' as if they are one homogenous group. It is deeply stupid and a slippery slope. The only thing you can be certain of about people who call themselves muslims is that 99% of them are good people who live by a moral code that aligns closely with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

As someone with no faith I admire and respect that.

As the muslim guy in the tube station said to the guy with the knife "You ain't no muslim bro!" and he was right, he wasn't.
 
QUBIQ said:
Regardless of faith, the mess we are in now, etc. I do feel as an island we are getting rather cramped. The roads, hospitals, everything is bursting with stress. I would be happy if our population went down.

I did sign the Trump petition though as I don't like the guy. He goes to far and is a clown.

But, Katie does have some valid points. I would like to see the Muslim community really come out and rip the shit out of ISIS. They really need to work on their PR. I'd like to see a mass march of Muslims holding placards saying "Not in our name" or similar. I'd like to see much more mass condemnation everywhere - on our streets, in the media, online. Their leaders seem too quiet.
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what you're describing is a lack of investment required to support a bigger population.

Which of Hopkins' points do you consider to be valid?

This idea that Muslims should come out and declare "not in our name", I don't think the average Muslim sees any connection between themselves and the actions of murderous Islamists. Did many Christians come out and declare "not in our name" when Breivik went on that killing spree in Norway? Would you expect them to?

Having just returned from a Muslim country, everyone with whom I discussed this mess expressed the same view about Isil.
 
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