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Winterreise after Fischer Dieskau

mandryka said:
That particular poem, Erstarrung, feels almost surreal to me -- it kind of touches on madness. You can see the madness in his eyes -- imagine Yosser Hughes doing it.



What are you saying? Hagegard, by the way, recorded an amazing Schwanengesang with Emanuel Ax.
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I suspect Dec is getting confused with Hakan Hardenberger 🤣

But tbh, I find the poetry a bit teenager-ish, over-wrought. Schubert's settings elevate it above its standalone status.
 
mandryka said:
Has anyone got a thought about this question: Why doesn't he kill himself?
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Heroines usually die at the end of operas from the medical condition known as "dramatic necessity", symptoms of which include bursting into song before the fatal moment.

I think in Winterreise it's all about wallowing in self pity as you do when lonely, lovelorn and lost. No special need for bodies all over the stage. There may be another 8 episodes in Winterreise, Series 2 anyway. Oh ......forgot, poor Schubert didn't get the chance to pen Series 2.
 
les24preludes said:
Heroines usually die at the end of operas from the medical condition known as "dramatic necessity", symptoms of which include bursting into song before the fatal moment.

I think in Winterreise it's all about wallowing in self pity as you do when lonely, lovelorn and lost. No special need for bodies all over the stage. There may be another 8 episodes in Winterreise, Series 2 anyway. Oh ......forgot, poor Schubert didn't get the chance to pen Series 2.
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Well in Mullerin he kills himself. Where I'm coming from in is this: Winterreise seems to be "about" something very different from Mullerin. For some reason, the speaker in Wiinterreise seems to finds it impossible to die. He's alive even at the end -- just with a bunch of questions

Und er lässt es gehen
Alles, wie es will,
Dreht, und seine Leier
Steht ihm nimmer still.

Wunderlicher Alter,
Soll ich mit dir geh'n?
Willst zu meinen Liedern
Deine Leier dreh'n?
 
les24preludes said:
......forgot, poor Schubert didn't get the chance to pen Series 2.
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Schubert didn't write the words.... Wilhelm Muller was just another jobbing romantic poet in early c.19th, fodder for publishers eager to exploit a growing middle-brow audience of bourgeoisie and their children... This sort of stuff was churned out almost like pulp comics to amuse impressionable teenage girls all over Germany.

He also wrote Die Schone Mullerin. He died in 1827 just a few months before Schubert, in his 30s.

Not sure anyone would remember him now had Schubert not set some of his poetry to music.

The final verse quoted actually achieves some poignancy if you remember that Muller is the tortured wanderer, and that Schubert is the Hurdy-Gurdy man.
 
Absolutely. It was pretty much the pop music of early 19th century.

With growing levels of literacy, increasing urbanisation, the bourgeoise and their increasingly educated kids couldn't get enough of it. There's a reason why so much poetry still taught today is from the romantic era.... Because there is so much of it!

Publishers couldnt get enough of it either... A lot of it printed in pamphlets and subscription periodicals.

It was the same in Britain... For every Shelley, Byron and Wordsworth there are a dozen lesser lights who are forgotten now.
 
alanbeeb said:
It was the same in Britain... For every Shelley, Byron and Wordsworth there are a dozen lesser lights who are forgotten now.
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Like the great William Topaz McGonnagall.......

Beautiful Railway Bridge of the Silv'ry Tay!
Alas! I am very sorry to say
That ninety lives have been taken away

The train mov'd slowly along the Bridge of Tay,
Until it was about midway,
Then the central girders with a crash gave way,
And down went the train and passengers into the Tay!
The Storm Fiend did loudly bray,
Because ninety lives had been taken away,
On the last Sabbath day of 1879,
Which will be remember'd for a very long time.

As soon as the catastrophe came to be known
The alarm from mouth to mouth was blown,
And the cry rang out all o'er the town,
Good heavens! the Tay Bridge is blown down,
And a passenger train from Edinburgh,
Which fill'd all the people's hearts with sorrow,
And made them all for to turn pale,
Because none of the passengers were sav'd to tell the tale
 
eisenach said:
I don't really know Winterreise all that well, but I've just enjoyed listening to Goerne / Eschenbach. It's well recorded, and, to me anyway, the playing and singing are sympathetic and well controlled. The concluding Leiermann was magic. How it compares to other versions, I can't say. Schubert is outside my usual listening territory. :)
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Or there's always
or to put it another way
www.hyperion-records.co.uk

Schubert: Winterreise

<p>All of the music on this album is also available as part of the specially priced box set <hyperion:link album="CDS44201/40">The Complete Songs of Franz Schubert</hyperion:link>: ‘This is an archive of glorious Lieder singing as much as it is a definitive treasury of the greatest Lieder ever...
www.hyperion-records.co.uk
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
Goerne also made a live recording with Brendel - when they settle down, about Wasserflut, it's excellent I think, and by Frülingstraum it's magic.
 
I saw Goerne and Brendel perform Schwanengesang at the Edinburgh Festival, must have been 2001 ish. That was quite something. I think Schwanengesang is better than Winterreise, seems to have more contrast.

That same year a young unknown German tenor by name of Jonas Kaufmann performed Winterreise with Richard Goode, it was spellbinding. Where is he now?
 
There is a real special Schwanengesang, very bold performance and probably ultimately a failure - sprechgesang - Bauer/Immerseel. Be prepared to be disoriented, and not just by the sound.

Schwanengesang favourites of mine: Boesch, Hagegard, Tom Kraus, Bostridge/Pappano, Goerne/Brendel, Shirley-Quirk, Holzmair (there are two - I like both)
 
Oh and another good one to try for complete disorientation in all three big Schubert cycles - Markus Schäfer/Tobias Koch. They use HIP embellishments, and it transforms everything.
 
alanbeeb said:
Absolutely. It was pretty much the pop music of early 19th century.

With growing levels of literacy, increasing urbanisation, the bourgeoise and their increasingly educated kids couldn't get enough of it. There's a reason why so much poetry still taught today is from the romantic era.... Because there is so much of it!

Publishers couldnt get enough of it either... A lot of it printed in pamphlets and subscription periodicals.

It was the same in Britain... For every Shelley, Byron and Wordsworth there are a dozen lesser lights who are forgotten now.
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I want you and @les24preludes to listen to this and tell me what you think. I'll tell you what I think - it's very cool! And I don't even speak German.


 
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