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Why do decent audio cables cost so much?

James said:
Power conditioners may clean up noise in your AC, but they will have higher output impedance that could choke high-power amplifiers. I accept they are fine for source components.

I had the luxury of designing and building my house, including specifying a separate AC supply for my music room.
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I'm not sure what 'power conditioners' is, but I have experience of power regenerators from the computer world. As viewed on an oscilloscope: Input, a waveform that might be useful to a surfer, lots of distorsion. Output, a clean, recognizable sinus. Would it affect SQ? Don't know, I wasn't allowed to take it home, and couldn't as it was the size of a kitchen stove. At least it did something, as opposed to expensive power cables.
 
RJohan said:
I'm not sure what 'power conditioners' is, but I have experience of power regenerators from the computer world. As viewed on an oscilloscope: Input, a waveform that might be useful to a surfer, lots of distorsion. Output, a clean, recognizable sinus. Would it affect SQ? Don't know, I wasn't allowed to take it home, and couldn't as it was the size of a kitchen stove. At least it did something, as opposed to expensive power cables.
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There are (smaller) power regenerators targeted at the audio market, e.g.:

 
Bodhi said:
Then why read or comment on the thread topic?
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In the vain hope that people might actually reach some sort of constructive compromise over such matters - ever more entrenched and dogmatic positions appear to be the inevitable outcome of any discussion of cables.

The Idea that poor gullible fools need "rescuing" from the delusion that cables make a difference to sound is patronising infuriating toss

The idea that people who don't perceive cable differences have crap unresolving systems, and decent cables "start" at £1k a metre is equally maddening

We have no real idea what happens in someone else's brain in response to sound/music, and yet insist on trying to project our own experience on others - neither "side" is correct in what can hardly be referred to as a debate, and you might think that as a group of (relatively) like minded people, we could manage to create a more accommodating environment for different viewpoints

short version: Gosh this is tedious 😉
 
tuga said:
Well, you did mention engineers then made reference to Paul McGoofy and Grandpa Guttenberg...
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Apologies, this is where the Oxford Comma does come in useful. It should have read 'engineers, and people who sell them'. Steve G was a hifi dealer in the past, then a journalist.
 
paulfromcamden said:
Do they? How?
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Some are hand assembled from custom made parts. Some cables take 2 people half-a-day to a day to make (some specials even more than that) - at UK rates - and that's just the time aspect. I presume you're not expecting these people to work for free?

Then, of course, you've got custom made parts in made in low volumes; it's not hard to see how the cost starts to mount up.
 
timpy said:
Some are hand assembled from custom made parts. Some cables take 2 people half-a-day to a day to make (some specials even more than that) - at UK rates - and that's just the time aspect. I presume you're not expecting these people to work for free?

Then, of course, you've got custom made parts in made in low volumes; it's not hard to see how the cost starts to mount up.
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Fair enough.
 
Also, in the case of ultra high end cables, these will almost certainly be installed into ultra high end systems. And the thing to note is that purchasers of systems like that expect a very hands-on service from their dealers. They'll be expected to install, and that usually means, to a microscopic level of attention to detail. Installing or moving a component in a high end system will often take more than one day, perhaps 2 or 3 in some circumstances. It'll get down to the level of moving the loudspeakers a few mm this way or that, to fine-tune the system. Now whether you agree that this makes a difference or not, it's the reality of what happens. This costs money. Usually quite a lot of money. So there has to be dealer margin to cover it.
 
timpy said:
Some are hand assembled from custom made parts. Some cables take 2 people half-a-day to a day to make (some specials even more than that) - at UK rates - and that's just the time aspect. I presume you're not expecting these people to work for free?

Then, of course, you've got custom made parts in made in low volumes; it's not hard to see how the cost starts to mount up.
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It is still difficult to get your head round £5k+ cables though, even if it took one man a week to make. I don't know what is the most expensive Lessloss cable but I know they are not cheap.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Also, in the case of ultra high end cables, these will almost certainly be installed into ultra high end systems. And the thing to note is that purchasers of systems like that expect a very hands-on service from their dealers. They'll be expected to install, and that usually means, to a microscopic level of attention to detail. Installing or moving a component in a high end system will often take more than one day, perhaps 2 or 3 in some circumstances. It'll get down to the level of moving the loudspeakers a few mm this way or that, to fine-tune the system. Now whether you agree that this makes a difference or not, it's the reality of what happens. This costs money. Usually quite a lot of money. So there has to be dealer margin to cover it.
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Yep, all part of the service. And while you're there, you'll often to asked to help diagnose any current issues or concerns too, and offer potential solutions to try if you can't cure it on the day.
 
Salamander said:
It is still difficult to get your head round £5k+ cables though, even if it took one man a week to make. I don't know what is the most expensive Lessloss cable but I know they are not cheap.
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I do know that a lot of small cable makers do hand layup of their cables and small batch production is the norm. And I'm not just talking about the boutique brands like Siltech or Crystal, but about people like Black Rhodium. Whose owner and designer happens to be an engineer, who spent a career working on comms and signalling systems for the rail network, so knows a thing about signal transmission.
 
It's surely easy to understand how some cables cost a lot more than others, in terms of materials/R&D/manufacturing/marketing/distribution/margin etc.

Much more murky is how that higher cost translates (or not) into a perception of improved sound quality (and VFM)...
 
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Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Also, in the case of ultra high end cables, these will almost certainly be installed into ultra high end systems. And the thing to note is that purchasers of systems like that expect a very hands-on service from their dealers. They'll be expected to install, and that usually means, to a microscopic level of attention to detail. Installing or moving a component in a high end system will often take more than one day, perhaps 2 or 3 in some circumstances. It'll get down to the level of moving the loudspeakers a few mm this way or that, to fine-tune the system. Now whether you agree that this makes a difference or not, it's the reality of what happens. This costs money. Usually quite a lot of money. So there has to be dealer margin to cover it.
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2-3 days to install a component! I wonder if there are any members here who are customers of such ultra high-end services?

To someone whose idea of a hi-fi show is rummaging through boxes of junk at Audiojumble, it feels like a different world.
 
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