Who's had a listening room built - what would you do differently?

[Rodney gold]

No matter how good the room dimensions are .. you will have bass nodes and suckouts

As has been mentioned , you can ameliorate this with the freedom to locate speakers and listening chair and you might be lucky and serendipitious and get a location where bass and everything else snaps into place .. but maybe not ..

no bass trapping will cure potential massive issues below 100hz , eg a +12db peak at 50 hz or so at listening position can really only be dealt with using DSP .. physical treatment would have to be huge and tuned to flatten this type of typical swing

Destructive Suckouts can be cured using multiple subs ..eq does nothing for them

Gavin , due to poor electrical supply here in south africa , my music room gets fed by battery banks into a very high quality pure sine wave inverter . Batteries are charged using solar.
The comment I hear most about my room is that how natural conversation sounds in it .. and the sense of quiet and tranquility

I have plans for my next room redo .. whenever that may be .. and that is to excavate the room by 1 meter , thus increasing my ceiling height ..

I spend 4-6 hours a day in the room , either just listening or working on a laptop and listening .. so I didnt think the 15 000 quid cost for the build and all the furniture and rugs was too exhorbitant..
Considering this is my home till I shuffle off the mortal coil , I did not begrudge it

I must qualify a lot of my comments in that I play loud.. at the very least at lifelike levels , and I love really deep tight bass ... I might not have gone to all this effort if I played chamber music at lower levels.

 

[Sean K]

I'm pretty much convinced that a good 'golden ratio' room will need no more than a light 'live-end/dead-end' treatment on all surfaces, e.g. a large record/book collection, curtains, good carpets etc.

This is what I'm hoping for. I have plenty of clutter and will be putting it to good use.

 

[Rodney gold]

John , the panels are quite thick and heavy , much heavier than plasterboard , so they do much of the same thing , there is a 50mm void between them and the walls and 1/2 of that is taken up with uthermo , so the boards resonate with bass and the uthermo damps it

 

[Sean K]

Lots of great ideas and advice.

Agree that it has to be inviting and for living in. I'm not looking to build a hermetic man-cave, but a nice lounge with good natural light, decent volume, good isolation so I can turn it up sometimes. Having said that, I don't want it to be too inviting as it would be nice to have a Masterchef, bake-off, etc.-free zone, so no immediate plans to put a TV in there.

Definitely hearing that you can't have too many sockets - separate 40A spur with multiple unswitched outlets.

How do the pipes work? drainpipe (with T and corner joints) laid on top of the rebar before the concrete's poured?

 

[ff1d1l]

Best sounding room I ever heard was a yurt.

I'd avoid parallel walls and ceiling (your builders and planning- building regs - won't like this). Then live end dead end treatment.

Best of luck and maybe share pics as its built?

 

[James]

Kia Ora James

That's very similar dimensions to what I'm planning, so that's very reassuring to hear that it's working very well. How do silence bats differ from standard? Are they just denser and thus more mass?

PS Nice speakers, Harvey Norman?

Kia ora John

Well, it's not pink for a start . Silencer Batts ensure I can play at proper hifi levels and not disturb the rest of the house. Our bedroom is right behind the loudspeaker wall, and my wife can watch TV in bed undisturbed.

Harvey Normans is useful for lots of consumer products, but bespoke loudspeakers are not one of them. The E-Xs have been relegated in favour of the E-IIIRs just now.

 

[Rodney gold]

Yeh, keep a build log , I had one published in my local forums but I used facebook to store the pics and they did some reshuffle so the pics now dont display ..I will recreate it sometime

 

[Folkman]

Interesting topic as I'm currently half way through having a dedicated listening room built very close to your sizes -- 6.2m x 4.4m x 2.8m

You seem to have most things covered , although you haven't mentioned any form of heating ?

I'm intending to fire the speakers down the room , but every thing is planned to allow cross room firing if needed and keeping symmetry whichever way is chosen.

Keeping a photo log of the build is a great idea , im doing so.

 

[Sean K]

Interesting topic as I'm currently half way through having a dedicated listening room built very close to your sizes -- 6.2m x 4.4m x 2.8m

You seem to have most things covered , although you haven't mentioned any form of heating ?

I'm intending to fire the speakers down the room , but every thing is planned to allow cross room firing if needed and keeping symmetry whichever way is chosen.

Keeping a photo log of the build is a great idea , im doing so.

Will certainly get photos done, would be keen to see how yours is turning out too.

Re: Heating, ideally, I'd like a small log-burner, as nothing else is as cosy, but having a fixed hearth obviously restricts placement of everything else. I'd live with the room for at least a year before I decided on anything so permanent and make do with an electric heater in the meantime. The best option, long-term would probably be a heat-pump, as the exchanger is mounted high-up on the wall, out of the way, even though. The quietest ones can still be a bit intrusive, noise-wise.

 

[James]

The best option, long-term would probably be a heat-pump, as the exchanger is mounted high-up on the wall, out of the way, even though. The quietest ones can still be a bit intrusive, noise-wise.

I have a Fujitsu heat pump mounted in the ceiling (out of photo shot) that is virtually silent once the room has reached your intended temperature. It also cools the room in the summer.

 

[Mike Reed]

No-one's mentioned their arrangements for electricity. Perfect opportunity for a separate spur.

A contradiction in terms; a spur cannot be electrically separated. You mean a radial circuit. Totally irrelevant here, of course, as John has explained, but to overlook this aspect in the U.K. in a venture of this nature is a waste of opportunity.

All the rooms I've had, from large Victorian to long sixties, have been fine with many types of speaker, but they've all had one common feature. They've all had crooks and nannies, whether huge Victorian fireplaces and alcoves to odd-shaped rooms like my current one.

 

[darrenyeats]

If I had carte blanche I'd study this more: http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_golden_trapagon.php.

 

[PhilCTTE]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/105276428@N03/shares/14Y4e4

Room was originally 4m square , so acoustically a nightmare

After extension the dimensions are 7.6m * 4m * 2.8m and 3.6m wide in the extension end.

Had various issues to work with ;
1. The extension out to the garden required a supporting column on exterior side wall.
2. Other half forced me to put in a set of French doors on one side of extension.

As previously mentioned there are ratios to work to.
Avoiding dimensions being 1/2 1/4 of each other and of course square where reflective waves get reinforced or nulled.

Spent ages investigating about acoustics and treatments ...

How to isolate and treat wall partitions, ceilings and floors.

Decoupling ceiling to wall and wall to floor

Adding mass to floors , walls and ceilings.

A useful resource on the subject was a few chapters from this book "Home Recording Studio" by Rod Gervais.

Plenty of companies selling their solutions online if you google.

Genie clips, resilient bars used to decouple plasterboard from ceilings/walls ... double layered plaster board with green glue in between or sticky vinyl to add mass.. the list is endless . Find a good supplier and ask around for advice and eventually you get a common idea about what's right.

Another resource from you tube is acoustic fields ... there are plenty of videos on the subject. And the guy from here ridicules the use of green glue , whereas many of the internet sellers promote it. What is interesting and factual is the video on the behaviour of wave forms and room sizes. So the lower you go the longer the room requirement i.e a 20hz wave would need 56ft before it dissipates.

Knowing when to diffuse, absorb or redirect.
Managing the sound energy in a room can start with the room size and the size of speaker drivers....and of course the position.

Low frequency is the nightmare with most U.K. Living room situations. Too much energy in too small a space.

Be warned the figures quoted in regards sound treatment products online which use stc ratings are >125hz only

Treating the first reflection points .

Then of course if a room is over treated it can sound unrealistic and dead .

The cost of getting these treatments done professionally can be huge. I was quoted 9k. The risk is getting it wrong and wasting your money if you go diy.
It's a precarious path....

I still haven't tested my room yet after spending just under 1k on materials.

I performed a sound test prior to the work and was concerned about the neighbours , but actually the worst leakage was the ceiling to bedrooms upstairs.
So this is where I've used resilient bars and genie clips together with double acoustic plaster with tecsound vinyl sandwiched between.

It really depends on what your targets are acoustically and of courseas keeping the other half happy , if relevant.

As for what I would do different I'll let you know once it's all up and runing.

In regards electrics I have installed two separate runs (radial) from consumer board to 8 double sockets half of which are switchless using a shielded mains cable from German company called Lapp.
Plus 8 runs of cat6 Ethernet for network connected devices , streaming tv , music etc...

 

[andrewhockley]

Will certainly get photos done, would be keen to see how yours is turning out too.

Re: Heating, ideally, I'd like a small log-burner, as nothing else is as cosy, but having a fixed hearth obviously restricts placement of everything else. The best option, long-term would probably be a heat-pump, as the exchanger is mounted high-up on the wall, out of the way, even though. The quietest ones can still be a bit intrusive, noise-wise.

Underfloor heating (maybe)
Lots of insulation
Solid walls, concrete slab floor
MVHR

You really won't need much (any) heating if you build it properly.

 

[zippy]

Will certainly get photos done, would be keen to see how yours is turning out too.

Re: Heating, ideally, I'd like a small log-burner, as nothing else is as cosy, but having a fixed hearth obviously restricts placement of everything else. I'd live with the room for at least a year before I decided on anything so permanent and make do with an electric heater in the meantime. The best option, long-term would probably be a heat-pump, as the exchanger is mounted high-up on the wall, out of the way, even though. The quietest ones can still be a bit intrusive, noise-wise.

Log burners are great EXCEPT - mine, on the right speaker side of the room, is not only a very reflective surface for sound but also has a distinct resonance at certain frequencies (If I bang the side, it rings like a bell). Nothing I've tried will mask that - I can't help feeling that it's affecting the frequency response, especially since the other side of the room has a highly absorbent surface (armchairs).

I sometimes wonder how we manage to get decent hifi sound at all in the face of all these barriers..

 

[James]

I sometimes wonder how we manage to get decent hifi sound at all in the face of all these barriers..

It's one of the causes of upgraditis. I will argue that a modest hifi system can sound better than a top-of-the-line system (from any maker you care to name) in a poor-sounding room.

 

[Tony L]

Nce chunky tube or class A amp = heated room!

 

[Sean K]

If I had carte blanche I'd study this more: http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_golden_trapagon.php.

Hi Darren.
I did look at this and in fact, I'm still torn about it and it's still an option.

I'm a bit put off by comments that if one does get nodes or standing-waves, that these are a lot more difficult to tackle in such a room. I'd be interested to hear from practical experience, whether anyone's gone down the trapagon route and how it's worked for them?

Cheers

 

[Sean K]

Nce chunky tube or class A amp = heated room!

Well, I am hoping it will be sufficiently decoupled from the house so I can trigger thermal shutdown in my 250s on a regular basis, would that count?

 

[Sean K]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/105276428@N03/shares/14Y4e4

Room was originally 4m square , so acoustically a nightmare

After extension the dimensions are 7.6m * 4m * 2.8m and 3.6m wide in the extension end.

Had various issues to work with ;
1. The extension out to the garden required a supporting column on exterior side wall.
2. Other half forced me to put in a set of French doors on one side of extension.

As previously mentioned there are ratios to work to.
Avoiding dimensions being 1/2 1/4 of each other and of course square where reflective waves get reinforced or nulled.

Spent ages investigating about acoustics and treatments ...

How to isolate and treat wall partitions, ceilings and floors.

Decoupling ceiling to wall and wall to floor

Adding mass to floors , walls and ceilings.

A useful resource on the subject was a few chapters from this book "Home Recording Studio" by Rod Gervais.

Plenty of companies selling their solutions online if you google.

Genie clips, resilient bars used to decouple plasterboard from ceilings/walls ... double layered plaster board with green glue in between or sticky vinyl to add mass.. the list is endless . Find a good supplier and ask around for advice and eventually you get a common idea about what's right.

Another resource from you tube is acoustic fields ... there are plenty of videos on the subject. And the guy from here ridicules the use of green glue , whereas many of the internet sellers promote it. What is interesting and factual is the video on the behaviour of wave forms and room sizes. So the lower you go the longer the room requirement i.e a 20hz wave would need 56ft before it dissipates.

Knowing when to diffuse, absorb or redirect.
Managing the sound energy in a room can start with the room size and the size of speaker drivers....and of course the position.

Low frequency is the nightmare with most U.K. Living room situations. Too much energy in too small a space.

Be warned the figures quoted in regards sound treatment products online which use stc ratings are >125hz only

Treating the first reflection points .

Then of course if a room is over treated it can sound unrealistic and dead .

The cost of getting these treatments done professionally can be huge. I was quoted 9k. The risk is getting it wrong and wasting your money if you go diy.
It's a precarious path....

I still haven't tested my room yet after spending just under 1k on materials.

I performed a sound test prior to the work and was concerned about the neighbours , but actually the worst leakage was the ceiling to bedrooms upstairs.
So this is where I've used resilient bars and genie clips together with double acoustic plaster with tecsound vinyl sandwiched between.

It really depends on what your targets are acoustically and of courseas keeping the other half happy , if relevant.

As for what I would do different I'll let you know once it's all up and runing.

In regards electrics I have installed two separate runs (radial) from consumer board to 8 double sockets half of which are switchless using a shielded mains cable from German company called Lapp.
Plus 8 runs of cat6 Ethernet for network connected devices , streaming tv , music etc...

The idea of separate circuits for the hifi v other stuff is a good one. Luckily, my mate, a sparky, is also into his hifi, so I can request various wiring options without getting funny looks.

Can you tell me a bit more about the bass traps (diffusers?) on the wall. If necessary, I was planning on making simple, shallow wooden frames, filling with insulation and covering with fabric of a design to chosen by management. Incidentally, my remark that fabric wallcovering might be good, drew approval, although possibly only on the basis it's the first time in 20 yrs I have demonstrated genuine rather than feigned interest on the subject.