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which huge floorstander?

merlin said:
How do you create a loudspeaker subjectively Tony? It will be used in a huge variety of environments that will interact with it and change it's performance either subtly or fundamentally. You have no idea what it will sound like in an alternative environment. Using unsubtle techniques to force the prominence of one or two frequency bands might be entertaining to some but it hardly qualifies as serious high fidelity.
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In many ways that is actually the Naim speakers’ strengths, unlike the vast majority of stuff out there they are designed to sound good hard against the wall in a typical modest size UK house. All the Vereker-era Naim speakers (SBL, IBL, DBL) shared a common presentation, they were one company’s vision and I’ll happily defend that even though they are not what I personally would choose. I exist kind of in the middle of the art/science view of audio, to my mind the best kit is a mid-point between the two, so I don’t have the slightest issue defending the Naim approach even if these days I’d personally far prefer a pair of ESLs, vintage Tannoys or BBC designs driven by tubes!

PS I’m surprised you are aguing so strongly on this given your respect for Japanese audiophiles where the ‘art’ aspect reigns supreme. I bet you could find next to no audiophile out there who loses any sleep over measurements!
 
I wouldn't find many Japanese designs that measured as badly as Naim Tony.

When you say, up against the wall - you mean rear wall. Not side walls? What about floor coverings? What about ceiling height? Is listening position adjustable or should that be against the wall too? What types of wall? Partition or solid brick? Floorboards or stone?... You hopefully get my point.

FWIW, I have no issue with their bass alignment which is clearly designed for boundary loading and works as it should - that part is easy.

I do have issues with the pronounced irregularities in the mid and treble when others are claiming that scientifically designed loudspeakers aren't neutral. IMHO it's not a smart way to design a loudspeaker - although the marketing that followed is a smart way to extract further revenue from your user base. A problem to some degree as it's now aging rapidly.
 
cooky1257 said:
No sh!t.
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Yep, and these two-way speakers with a 15'' woofer or two crossed smack in the middle of the midrange.
JBL/Harman are obsessed with controlling directivity whilst apparently neglecting other aspects of performance have limited performance potential.
I considered the LSR6332 when I bought my current speakers but I wouldn't buy the M2s or any of the 43-- series.
 
Would you consider the presence region to be an important part of the midrange?
 
I very much doubt a pair of Western Electric cinema horns measure flat across the mid, yet they are legendary and worth far more second hand than any JBL! This is what I mean about the Japanese attitude. It is about buying the art you like.
 
merlin said:
Would you consider the presence region to be an important part of the midrange?
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The presence region is important but not part of the midrange.

https://www.teachmeaudio.com/mixing/techniques/audio-spectrum/

The presence region is so called because a change in level will either produce a subjective impression of the stereo image being recessed or more "present".
It also coincides with the band where the human ear is most sensitive, as can be seen in the equal-loudness contour (Fletcher-Munson) curves:

400px-Lindos1.svg.png
 
tuga said:
JBL/Harman are obsessed with controlling directivity whilst apparently neglecting other aspects of performance have limited performance potential.
I considered the LSR6332 when I bought my current speakers but I wouldn't buy the M2s or any of the 43-- series.
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It just gets better and better.
 
Tony L said:
I very much doubt a pair of Western Electric cinema horns measure flat across the mid, yet they are legendary and worth far more second hand than any JBL! This is what I mean about the Japanese attitude. It is about buying the art you like.
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For me the art is the music (or the recording of the music).
The speakers are just a tool that allows me to listen to it; and the more accurate the speakers, the more art I'll be able to listen to.
 
Tony L said:
I very much doubt a pair of Western Electric cinema horns measure flat across the mid, yet they are legendary and worth far more second hand than any JBL! This is what I mean about the Japanese attitude. It is about buying the art you like.
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To be fair Tony, there's a healthy respect for much vintage equipment over there and we enjoyed our time listening to much of it. The really vintage equipment however is more akin to antique collecting though IME and most of the serious devices, like the Exclusive monitors and turntables for instance, would measure superbly well in addition of course to sounding superb.

I agree wholeheartedly that the Japanese will buy for reasons other than fidelity but that's usually wanting to own a part of history. Certainly the vintage kit we listened to when over there would have been considered to be, objectively speaking, remarkable in it's time and most would still be seen that way today.

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We listened to these at the show. Note the DSP equalisation. Sure vintage components. But given the efficiency and controlled dispersion, a very easy load for the amplifiers which, at the output levels required would offer surprisingly low distortion levels. The drive units employed of course would offer that regardless.
 
cooky1257 said:
I have the distinct impression your knowledge and experience of large format 2 way monitors be they TAD, JBL or Tannoy is very slender indeed.
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An audiophile I know (a turntable collector) owns the 2402 Pioneers. I prefer the Reference Ones that I have listened to a couple of times at shows. I listened to a pair of Canterburys once and another guy I know owns the 12'' monitor reds. I have no experience with vintage JBLs, only LSR32s and LSR308s.
I played with horns once, tried to improve the performance of some Opera Barques but the investment was not proportional to the improvements so I gave up.
 
You've owned a number of BBC "monitors" then Tuga? Spendor? Quite a few? The odd Rogers or two?

I'm impressed that you feel you can form a worthwhile opinion based on hearing a speaker once in a strange environment
 
merlin said:
You've owned a number of BBC "monitors" then Tuga? Spendor? Quite a few? The odd Rogers or two?

I'm impressed that you feel you can form a worthwhile opinion based on hearing a speaker once in a strange environment
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Which speaker are you talking about?

I had a pair of SP9/1s for almost a decade. Now I am using Stirling's LS3/6s.
 
Arkless Electronics said:
It's not the big floor standing speaker concept I have a problem with. It's the near the wall bit I don't like. All the speakers you name I wouldn't touch with a bargepole! Especially Bozak. Low colouration uber alles! Large floorstanders from KEF, B & W, Wilson Audio and Focal.... now we're talking. You won't go wrong with anything from KEF's Reference series.
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So, which Bozak, EV, big classic JBL, Altec, Urei speakers have you auditioned? And in what circumstances?

Or is it just a general thing on principle that you don't want to touch these speakers with a bargepole? Speakers are a highly personal choice and you are welcome to dislike speakers for any reason you like. Even if it's a reason that makes no sense.


I've spent a morning auditioning Kef Reference 5's. If you want something that looks nice and sounds OK, these are the speakers for you. If you want something that can create the magical effect of it sounding as if there musicians are there, playing in your room, live, just for you - avoid. If you have, or prefer, modestly priced or low powered or low damping factor amps then you should avoid the Kef Reference 5's too.


Would you, or anyone else, be up for a bake-off? EV Sentry III's vs Ditton 15's or Kef Reference 5's?
 
lindsayt said:
So, which Bozak, EV, big classic JBL, Altec, Urei speakers have you auditioned? And in what circumstances?

Or is it just a general thing on principle that you don't want to touch these speakers with a bargepole? Speakers are a highly personal choice and you are welcome to dislike speakers for any reason you like. Even if it's a reason that makes no sense.


I've spent a morning auditioning Kef Reference 5's. If you want something that looks nice and sounds OK, these are the speakers for you. If you want something that can create the magical effect of it sounding as if there musicians are there, playing in your room, live, just for you - avoid. If you have, or prefer, modestly priced or low powered or low damping factor amps then you should avoid the Kef Reference 5's too.


Would you, or anyone else, be up for a bake-off? EV Sentry III's vs Ditton 15's or Kef Reference 5's?
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ditton 15 vs kef ref 5. is that a joke?
 
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