what is it with old stuff

[messengerman]

What is it with old threads?

I've been reading a few of them and, particularly in the Classics section they are just so much better the modern rubbish! IMVVHO OC.

 

[PlattenFantast]

IMHO some older equipment can sound fantastic, be it amplifiers, speakers or turntables etc.
This is too subjective to debate in some sort of absolute terms - I think there has been improvement in some areas, whereas in many others, there has not. I could argue that some of the very best vintage TTs like EMT, Garrard 301/401 or even Thorens TD124 (with the heavier cast iron platter) with a good vintage arm like Ortofon RF- or RM- series or SME 3012 (esp. Ser. 1) and good vintage MC like the SPU (esp. 1960's-mid 1970's) playing through a good transformer like JS or Ortofon T2000, will put a big smile on any vinyloholic's lips.
It's not "hi-fi", but musical communication. Same goes for quite a few vintage valve power amps as well as pre amps (though pre:s possibly more seldom) and integrateds.
I've also heard vintage speakers that were fantastic...and owned some too.
Quad 57 are exceptional on many things, as are Spendor BC-1s to name a few I've owned for many years.
One of the finest pairs of speakers I ever had were 1959 Tannoy Canterburys with 12" Monitor Reds; sublime, transparent and extremely open and commucative - sorry I had to let these go, many years ago.
Altec...and there are others too...
Tuners; again I rate my Leak Trough Line 3 with One Thing Audio decoder as one of the very best tuners I've ever heard, regardless of price - it replaced my cherished Naim NAT02, which it "beat" quite comfortably.
Ever listened to a well aligned and trimmed Revox G36 all-valve R2R tape recorder...I could go on, but will stop here
I really don't know what "hi-fi" means - it would appear to be a marketing term more than anything else.
I never wanted hi-fi - just music.
Nostalgia never was a driving force for me, even though some of the older better stuff is super nice to own and handle (well thought out and -made, often with a "substantial feel") .
Possibly the most significant real progress that has been made IMO, is in the digital field - it's starting to sound pretty OK these days, but I'm a die hard ananlog fan in general, and a vinyl fan in particular, so that's as far as I'm willing to go - for now.
Don't know if these examples helps answering your question at all...probably not.
Cheers
Peter

I've been looking at many of the threads on here , but I cant get my head round this desire for old stuff. After all the whole idea of HiFi is to produce the closest sound to the original. Are you "old hiFi" folk suggesting nothing has improved in 30/40 odd years , or is it a thing like old cars , it harks back to a bygone age , a nostagia thing, or does some stuff really sound better . Just interested thats all.

 

[DSJR]

Being very vintage myself these days with little money and falling behind a little with modern HiFi developments, I'd suggest myself that carefully chosen vintage gear (there was a lot of cr@p too) can make lovely, musical and accurate music..

There's a pair of KEF R104ab's inc stands going locally for not much money (well under £100). OK, the foam grilles perished years ago, but the cabinets are good, if a little faded and I know these "ab" versions sound really good on a sympathetic system and are great on clean LP based systems as well as modern CD sources (they hated the eighties LP12 turntable systems, which upset the ABR something chronic). Even older R104's could/can? be upgraded to ab status via Wilmslow Audio... Spendor SP1's still sound great and cost only a very few hundred pounds. Try getting a fashionable B&W or KEF at £300 to sound as good today..

Amps - tons of goodies here from all periods, from the Metrosound ST20 (a solid state Rogers Cadet - honestly) to certain HK, Amcron/Crown models from the mid seventies (many suffered due to too much feedback in the design to eliminate distortion, forgetting that time delay distortion is the worst kind of all where detail's concerned). The JVC JAS 310 was a great cheapy and the Sony TA 5650/8650 were MosFET(sorry, V FET) delights as I recall. Naim's of any age can all be serviced and the little Nait mk1 is a joy, despite the very low power output.

Turntables? Well discussed already, but a well cared for vintage Thorens, Systemdek or even Rega nowadays is a great bet - even a good Goldring Lenco GL75 with original arm can have fresh life breathed into it and it *can* out perform a non RB300 Rega Planar 3 and also the Linn Axis..

Old CD players need great care!!! Most players until a few years ago sprayed all sorts of ultrasonic and RF rubbish down their signal and mains cables which had severe effects for some amps like early Naim's for example. Mains filters were sneered at, but a good late 1980's model suitably filtered by a high current (4-6A) filter can still work very well, as it's only the obsolescence of the various chip sets and mechs which REALLY brought about rafts of new models and lower costs.

 

[spet0114]

...even a good Goldring Lenco GL75 with original arm can have fresh life breathed into it and it *can* out perform a non RB300 Rega Planar 3 and also the Linn Axis..

...and with a decent arm and plinth can become an LP12-beater....

 

[DSJR]

Hehehe!!!!!

I still think an unmodified version with (refurbished) original arm is a real steal if it can be bought for well under 50 notes usually. Stick an Ortofon 510/520? in it (or a Goldring 1006/1012GX at the time) and replace the lead out cables (and mains lead) with up to date equivalents (I used an "old" Ittok cable) and it's fantastic...

P.S. I also experimented with fitting an in-line resistor to the mains lead as suggested regarding a HiFi Sound review of the G99. It certainly improved S/N on the motor and barely effected startup time at all - sorry, I forget the value of said resistor......

 

[spet0114]

Don't you find a problem with the 'drooping' counterweight stub?

 

[ter]

I dunno, some of the early CDPs were pretty good. I only have experience with philips/marantz ones but the combination of the swing arm transports and tda1541 dac still takes a lot to beat today.

I had one of the original Phillips CD players. It was used and used, relentlessly from around 1983. Since, I have given it to a friend. Still, it is going strong, never having faltered. Yet, in the various pishfish media columns, we read of members with expensive and recent CD players having "problems". Enough said.

 

[Martyn Miles]

What is it with old stuff...? I've read with interest this ongoing thread. Being of the ' older ' age group and having lived with my BC1s for over 30 years I suppose that old 'kit' is well known to me. If you live with equipment you get to know it, but being young it's part of changing things; things are transient by nature. I did much the same when younger, trying speakers , buying speakers , selling speakers... It wasn't until I heard a pair of Spendors in a local studio, where my brother was part of the group. I knew I wanted a pair from that point and never looked back. I'm sure that modern Spendors are superb speakers, but I will always remember that sound in the studio of voices I knew so well. Perhaps it's nostalgia, but to me I'm happy with my speakers. Now, as for electronics, I'm not sure that I'd want an old Quad amp. with its aged capacitors and resistors out of spec.? I run my BC1s with a modern, reliable SS amp. fed by a modern CD source. They have never sounded so good... If I lost the BC1s and replaced the speakers with say Spendor S5es, which people say is the modern equivalent of the BC1 would I be happy? Probaby, but they wouldn't have the history of the originals which have introduced me to music for 30 years... Not to mention those voices I heard over 30 years ago.

 

[mudlark]

Turntables? Well discussed already, but a well cared for vintage Thorens, Systemdek or even Rega nowadays is a great bet - even a good Goldring Lenco GL75 with original arm can have fresh life breathed into it and it *can* out perform a non RB300 Rega Planar 3 and also the Linn Axis..

I Origin Lived my Rega 3 and then upgraded an RB250 and it was like putting a V8 in a rattly old 4 cylinder MGB. Refreshing an old friend is so very enjoyable and cost effective.