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What is it with hi-fi forums and "not liking rap"?

M

messengerman

pfm Member
Some of you are not going to like me for asking this question but I think its about time to ask it.

It's been a while since I hung out on forums and in returning I can't help but notice the preponderance of posts in which we are informed - for no discernable reason - that the poster can't stand "rap".

Not just here but all over ALL the forums.

Is this code?

Is there some mysterious way we are supposed to find this info interesting or entertaining or helpful that I might have missed?

Or is it a dog whistle? Are these posters signaling their race? Their racism even?

Because in equipment threads I can't think how it could ever be relevant. Typically it goes "I like rock, indie, prog rock, techno and EDM but [wink wink] can't stand rap. Smiley face. Recommend me a DAC <£2k" The rap point is redundant.

Even in In music threads it's usually casually tagged awkwardly onto the end of something quite different or offered up on its own as as a dull drive-by. An ill-considered throw away method of garnering "likes" would be the kindest interpretation I can think of. But, regardless of intention, these remarks are all too obviously heard as dog whistles.

Meanwhile people who do show up asking about gear in a hip hop or reggae context are hurried away with lazy low fi / big woofer recommendations. As if you all think such genres are too crude to warrant great sound quality. Or perhaps their fans too unrefined to appreciate it.

So are hi-fi forums only for white people who listen to white music ? Because if not then why create such a hostile atmosphere? Or why sit back and allow others to?

PS PFM is not the worst BTW, the US ones are. But PFM could be a lot better.
 
I think it boils down to demographics. Audiophiles, at least in the Anglosphere, are mostly middle-aged (or older) white males.

It is possible to dislike rap/hiphop without being prejudiced. Some people just don't like the sounds. And age is a factor too - for those of us who were already in our late 20s or older when rap first emerged at the end of the 1970s, it didn't sound like what we wanted from music, our tastes were mostly already formed.

And in a hifi setting, little hiphop is "recorded well".
 
I really don't think it has any connection with racism or anything like that! I hope not anyway and have never considered it so.

I reckon it is just people indicating that they have reasonable taste in music!

I don't like to miss any opportunity to slag off rap, EDM, "R & B" (real r 'n b ie from before say 1975 is great) and in general anything overly repetitive that was made on a laptop rather than by actual musicians, "Ft" anyone in the title, has autotune or generally could feature in the top 20 since say 1990. All of this stuff is the musical equivalent of something most unpleasant that I've just unfortunately stood in.

However I also love all sorts of music made traditionally, if not exclusively, by BAME musicians. I love reggae, dub, Motown era soul and R n B, jazz and have even been known to listen to acid-jazz....hence. like Father Ted, not racist!
 
I do have some records with Rap on them but not many. e.g. Rag 'n' Boneman with Leaf Dog. It's good and witty but could be regarded as misogynistic.

A lot of Rap is just manufactured, repetitive cRap though from what I've heard unless somebody can enlighten me.

Unless you only play folk, opera or classical then you listen to black music anyway.
 
I can’t stand rap. I really can’t. It makes me mad and nauseous at the same time. It gets on my nerves.
So unmusical to me, the negation of what music has to offer.
Hip-hop not much better to me.
Auto tune, yuck.
One (in his late 50’s) man’s opinion eh.
 
Rap sounds ok on the car radio, sometimes, that's really the only place I listen to it these days..

Also -to me at least- Rap seems to date easily, I really liked some Rap from the 80's but none of it really holds up today and stands up to the test of time like other forms of music, like classic Jazz for one.
 
I like rap/hip-hop. Sorry about that. I’m nowhere near as well informed as I’d like to be but I have a fairly decent range from its origins in Gil Scott Heron through early 80s stuff like Grandmaster Flash (I bought the 12” singles at the time), through things like Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy and more up to date with Kendrick Lamar, MF Doom, Madlib, Anderson .Paak, Makaya Mcraven etc. I gravitate more to the jazzy, funky side of it, but it is a huge genre and where most of the most intelligent lyrics can be found these days. I certainly view it, or at least a substantial strain of it, as a seamless timeline from Gil Scott Heron. The best modern music is totally cross-genre and the rap R&B influence is just everywhere, e.g. impossible not to hear it in the exploding London jazz scene.

PS So much rap, grime etc is black protest music. I fear a lot of safe white guys are simply afraid to look!
 
I find that a large number of audiophiles have very limited tastes in music, to be honest, often returning to the same old genres and same old artists, again and again. We like what we like but dismissing a whole genre, while hardly dipping a toe in its waters, is not the act of a music lover, IMO.
 
oldius said:
I find that a large number of audiophiles have very limited tastes in music, to be honest, often returning to the same old genres and same old artists, again and again.
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You’re probably right.
There are some sounds I hate in rap, the fact that it’s unsung too I find unnerving.
But then I also hate metal and other kinds of music.
I love music.
 
It’s just old (mostly) white guys. It’s not a racism thing - jazz is often very popular in just the same places. It’s just the intersection of demographics and probability.

It’s similar with a number of comedians - you won’t get that many saying they love Jimmy Carr (even aside from the recent controversy), but you’ll see a lot of ‘I can see what he’s doing, but…’.

My musical background is largely in extreme metal, and the same thing happens there - ‘the music’s ok, I just don’t like the singing’.

Nothing sinister, just bell curves at work.

FWIW I’m 44, male, white, and thinks Run The Jewels and clipping. made two of the best albums of the past couple of years.
 
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I like some rap, old school political stuff, mostly: Grandmaster Flash, De La Soul, LL Cool J, Eric B & Rakim, Public Enemy & NWA. hate most of the hard-core gangster stuff so most of the 2000s passes me by, but more recently I like Little Simz, Kate/Kae Tempest and a few others.

It's not always the best recorded or produced stuff to be sure, but if you take your time to listen past your prejudices, there's just some fantastic lyrics, samples and beats in there.

52yo white, northern, lower middle class, fwvliw.
 
Yank said:
And in a hifi setting, little hiphop is "recorded well".
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I spun my Grandmaster Flash 12” singles only a couple of weeks ago, I was stunned by how good The Message sounded. Just huge and so, so powerful via giant Tannoys, but with lots of space and more stuff going on than I remember. Amazing vocal recording. Never had any issue with stuff like The Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy (check out Hiphoprisy Is The Only Luxury and the album they did with William Burroughs). It is obviously a mix of sampling and real instruments, but so is Kraftwerk, Grace Jones etc. Nothing wrong in that. A lot of the modern stuff e.g. Kendrik Lamar does strike me as a ‘small speaker mix’ i.e. is a bit bass-boosted, but it’s still really nicely done. It’s one I prefer to listen to upstairs on the 149s or LS3/5As as the Tannoys would rattle the windows out! FWIW I rate To Pimp A Butterfly as one of, if not the best album of this century. Bewilderingly complex (and very sweary) but a remarkably layered and clever work. I needed an instruction manual to even start to understand it (there are sites which help pick the meaning out of language which is confusing to an older white guy). Features some amazing musos too e.g. Thundercat, Kamasi Washington etc.
 
tpetsch said:
Rap sounds ok on the car radio, sometimes, that's really the only place I listen to it..
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I assuming it’s enjoyed by the person playing it the car…but it sounds awful from outside the car. I don’t know if I’m being unreasonable but loud music emanating from cars is often rap..played by any race. I’m old and fuddy-duddy.
 
Tony L said:
I like rap/hip-hop. Sorry about that. I’m nowhere near as well informed as I’d like to be but I have a fairly decent range from its origins in Gil Scott Heron through early 80s stuff like Grandmaster Flash (I bought the 12” singles at the time), through things like Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy and more up to date with Kendrick Lamar, MF Doom, Madlib, Anderson .Paak, Makaya Mcraven etc. I gravitate more to the jazzy, funky side of it, but it is a huge genre and where most of the most intelligent lyrics can be found these days. I certainly view it, or at least a substantial strain of it, as a seamless timeline from Gil Scott Heron. The best modern music is totally cross-genre and the rap R&B influence is just everywhere, e.g. impossible not to hear it in the exploding London jazz scene.

PS So much rap, grime etc is black protest music. I fear a lot of safe white guys are simply afraid to look!
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All of this!

And - I suggest - some of these genres are really heavily 'produced': in the same way that everything from root/rockers/ into reggae, into Dub, and from there to dancehall.. and all the many vital strands - always were. And I've pile of such...

As such - it (hip hop) really is not necessarily the feedstock of wanting 'hifi' - its a very much more visceral music than that. I love it, but actually - 'hifi' to enjoy it is the last thing the music needs. I think that's why - to topslice the OP comment -
- hip-hop isn't discussed much - because it works up close and personal, as performance live, or in a soundsystem setting, or in headphones to make your day.
- conversely there's no element of hostility in this at all - simply it's just not music that say an A60 & LS3/5s, and comparable systems fitted around domestic reqts from sim combos of integrated+booksheld speakers, might do justice to.

ATB.

(ETA: must confess the my old 12'" of Blacka Don's Clipper sounds awesome at serious volume through big ESLs...)
 
When I went on my first serious hi fi buying spree since the late 80s/early 90s a couple of years ago I was amazed that the demo records of choice picked out by the sellers were Pink Floyd and Fleetwood Mac. I get that these are classics most audiophiles will know but even so, it was like time had stood still.

Most people become very embedded in their tastes and don't want to be exposed to anything different. In one way it's a rational response to information/choice overload and choosing safety in what you know and understand. Personally my musical taste has broadened quite a lot in recent years to the point where I think it's pretty obvious there is good and bad and stuff you do like or don't like in every genre. Dismissing an entire, broad, sprawling and long established genre is probably more simple ignorance than anything else.
 
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