At least one of those can be changed
What does it mean to you to be English?
- Thread starter wulbert
- Start date
gavreid
Pretty Words...
Ill educated, little England. Violent aggressive behaviour. Drinking culture. A completely irrational belief in England being the best at and deserving of everything. People who have never been out of their own backyards. A lack of respect and appreciation for others. The bloody monarchy.
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Fatmarley
"It appears my intelligence circuits have melted"
I can honestly say, that if it wasn't for my son winning a kickboxing match, I wouldn't know what proud means. We'd trained hard together to get his techniques right.
Now that I know what it means, I know for sure that I feel nothing about being English, or anything else.
Now that I know what it means, I know for sure that I feel nothing about being English, or anything else.
Cloud seeding?At least one of those can be changed
I don't really feel anything... I just am English. Same way as I am British. I don't like the fact that the country's flag has been hijacked by the far right. I live in Norfolk and several people in the locality have flagpoles with the St George's Cross flying 'proudly'... now I've no idea why and maybe they are just lovely English people who want to say how lovely England is, but living in Liz Trussville amongst a large proportion of Brexitarti I can pretty much guarantee why they fly it and I am not about to engage them as it wouldn't go well. I have thought about getting a pole of my own and flying the EU and Palestine flags... I am semi serious btw. Put it this way if a flagpole was already installed those would be the flags flying.
richardg
Admonishtrator
This needs rephrasing. What is it about being from any country that is distinct and worthy of pride?
I get that some people feel a positive emotion about their country, but how can it be a feeling of pride? Most of us have contributed bugger all to the national identity, nor are most us close to anyone that has contributed.
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
Speak for yourself. I shoved a flare up my arse one time at an England match.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
But that is the point. What is about being proud about being English that is distinct from the pride of being French or American? If the basis of pride of the French is the same as the pride of the English and the American, then the pride has to have something in common, whereas being proud of being specifically English requires something distinct.
tones
Tones deaf
Spot on - the modern nation state, with a silly bit of coloured rag to salute and a silly song to sing, developed slowly, but really came to full fruition in the the Thirty Years' War. I personally find it bizarre that particular characteristics are attributed to what amount to administrative divisions on a map. It really handicaps us when we face global-wide problems that need global-wide solutions, such as climate change, loss of natural habitat, overutilisation of natural resources and, of course (and very topically) people seeking a better life elsewhere.
Instead, we have trumped (if you'll pardon the expression)-up little would-be tsars trying to resurrect long-lost and largely imaginary glories by blowing up the administrative division next door, nasty little men trying to make good on a divine promise allegely made to a distant ancestor in the late Bronze Age and silly little men (and women) cutting off their noses to spite their faces in some strange notion of island exceptionalism. Nero would recognise what's happening.
Trouble is, the whole nonsense is so ingrained in the world as a whole that only a complete catastrophe would knock sense into our heads. Nikita Khruschev allegedly said that, when the time came to hang the last capitalist, the capitalist would sell him the rope. I can only hope that we get out of the rope-making business before it's too late.
Personally, I am Irish, but that's because I was born on the island called Ireland, full stop - I attribute no particular aspects to that.
If your country did something or does something to make the world a significantly better place, you cam justifiably be pruod of it. Say you had helped elect a government that, oh, I don't know, welcomed asylum seekers from less fortunate countries, or looked after the sick, old, and needy, or even, heaven forbid, didn't steal funds from something that wasn't *actually* party funds so they didn't *actually* steal it from party funds.
*IF* my country stood up for the repressed, looked after the sick and old, etc and I didn't contribute to it other than by voting and paying my taxes, I could feel proud of that, with justification. However we have a current government of which I am ashamed and appalled by turns.
richardg
Admonishtrator
You mention governments twice, but in my life I have no positive feelings about any uk government. Dismay is what I have felt.
I have, on occasion. They went on to foul up, but there you go. In any case, regardless of that, I said "*IF* your government did XYZ you could be pruod of it" and that remains the case. The fact that they haven't means that I can't, but that's the nature of conditional clauses.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Yes. Not a coincidence that expressions of English Nationalism involve dressing up as a Crusader!
Also worth noting that expressions of Nationalism are all backdated. We talk about The English vs The French in medieval conflicts since The Conquest whereas in truth these were wars between brothers, cousins and in-laws over who owned which toys and territories, and not a conflict about nations. Henry II, Richard I, Henry V etc etc were all far more French than they were English
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
Bollox, as you stated yourself:Where I come from the attitude has always been “we‘re not English, we‘re scouse“.
Having moved to Scotland after Uni and never lived in England thereafter, I consider myself Scottish and very thankful for it.
Whats to like about:
Abject fealty to the royalty and aristo’s
The Tory party
Worship of a glorious past long gone, a country built on the back of slaves and colonial exploitation.
English exceptionalism, other places have nice countryside too you know.
The whole country based around what’s good for London
Right wing arseholes, especially the thick working class ones.
Apart from that it’s a great place
a. you didn't consider yourself to be English growing up
b. haven't lived in England since you were 21
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
Ok here goes: Wat Tyler & The Peasants Revolt, the Tolpuddle Martyrs, the Chartists, the Luddites, the Suffragettes, the ex-Jewish servicemen who stopped Mosley, the Anti-Nazi League and the Anti-Poll Tax Federation. Nothing intrinsically English or
British about any of them of course, they just happened to coalesce on this island, so if I have to be proud of anything, I‘m proud of them.
Likewise the Beatles, who took Black American music and sold it to the white kids and
Two-Tone who reinvented Jamaican ska.
“Theirs is a land of hope and glory, mine is the green field and the factory floor.”
British about any of them of course, they just happened to coalesce on this island, so if I have to be proud of anything, I‘m proud of them.
Likewise the Beatles, who took Black American music and sold it to the white kids and
Two-Tone who reinvented Jamaican ska.
“Theirs is a land of hope and glory, mine is the green field and the factory floor.”
gavreid
Pretty Words...
I do think that Bill gets a bit muddled up sometimes. Blake's Jerusalem is ill conceived - and he used that revolting tune from the church (Parry/Elgar!) Why?
paulfromcamden
Baffled
And I suppose Jesus was a foreigner too? It's Woke Gone Mad.
les24preludes
pfm Member
At least one of those can be changed
Unfortunately it's the weather. Shit governments will continue, and they're responsible for it......