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What does it mean to you to be English?

wulbert

wulbert

pfm Member
I kind of know what it means to be Scottish but I'm curious as to what English people feel defines their sense of Englishness?

We seem to be in a situation where being "proudly English" cannot be spoken of, without suspicion of possible racism or xenophobia ( I may well have this wrong). It seems necessary to dilute/conflate national pride in England with the possibly more acceptable sense of "Britishness".

When talking about "The Nation", commentators are generally referring to the UK, even though the UK is not a nation, but a unitary state made up of four separate nations. But sometimes "The Nation" really means England (as Britain/UK). (E.g "UK Elections" that are only happening in England and Wales). Like many things British, it seems to be a bit of a fudge.
There is so much about England that I love; the poetry, folk songs, landscape, proper pubs, accents and much more, but it seems to be mildly taboo subject to celebrate England as itself. Or am I completely wrong and missing the point (quite likely from up here in Glasgow).

Any thoughts?
 
I feel nothing, no pride at all and no shame either. Spent nearly half of my adult life in other countries and place England as less appealing to live in than Thailand or France, where I have spent 6 and 7 years respectively. I feel numb and disengaged when I am there. I'm English but feel there is nothing there for me.
 
There's lots of things I like about England and Englishness. Alan Bennett, Saville Row Tailoring, the Kent countryside, sarcasm...

The problem is the people who shout loudest about ENGERLAND tend to be the sort of people who thing patriotism is about wrapping yourself in a flag and having a punch up next to the Cenotaph.

And I'm conscious that the modern nation state is largely a construct - and historically nationalism has been a useful tool for those in positions of authority to consolidate their power. Politicians getting the flags out always rings an alarm bell for me.
 
richardg said:
I feel nothing, no pride at all and no shame either. Spent nearly half of my adult life in other countries and place England as less appealing to live in than Thailand or France, where I have spent 6 and 7 years respectively. I feel numb and disengaged when I am there. I'm English but feel there is nothing there for me.
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Same here, minus the living elsewhere bit. I don't like what the country has been slowly shaped into over the past 40 odd years and can't see any chance of it being turned around. I'm just in 'keep my head down and hope I end up OK' mode.
 
wulbert said:
I kind of know what it means to be Scottish but I'm curious as to what English people feel defines their sense of Englishness?

We seem to be in a situation where being "proudly English" cannot be spoken of, without suspicion of possible racism or xenophobia ( I may well have this wrong). It seems necessary to dilute/conflate national pride in England with the possibly more acceptable sense of "Britishness".

When talking about "The Nation", commentators are generally referring to the UK, even though the UK is not a nation, but a unitary state made up of four separate nations. But sometimes "The Nation" really means England (as Britain/UK). (E.g "UK Elections" that are only happening in England and Wales). Like many things British, it seems to be a bit of a fudge.
There is so much about England that I love; the poetry, folk songs, landscape, proper pubs, accents and much more, but it seems to be mildly taboo subject to celebrate England as itself. Or am I completely wrong and missing the point (quite likely from up here in Glasgow).

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
The problem is with ideologies that are exclusive and not inclusive.

The rise of nationalism saw unification across Europe, but now it seems to tend towards division, difference and othering.

Nationalism today seems to reflect a sense of fear from an outside threat. What was a force for bring people together has become tribal
 
I used to be proud of my nationality, not so much nowadays. I am a bit sinical about the whole idea of nations and nationality. Is it all just about control, I wonder.
 
I'm Welsh. I will always say I'm Welsh, not English. Second to that I'd say I was European rather than English. I spent years in France and Norway and speak both languages. I'm proud to be European and I have huge respect for the EU and all it has achieved.

Having said that I do enjoy living in London - the freedom to be who you want to be, the multi-national social life. I find that in general people here are well educated, friendly and respectful. I'm not aware of any conspicuous social classes, but I have no rich friends so the world of money or privilege has never figured in my life. I've spent all my life in the performing arts one way or another, and that's a very distinct world and one which I've always found very rewarding on all kinds of levels. London is, of course, a very good place to live and work if you are in the performing arts.
 
I feel pride when I think of our artistic output, which is, across most fields I think, still up there with the absolute best. And I don't put that completely down to privilege in the past. Nationalism is on the rise everywhere and just as ugly everywhere.
 
Unless I'm missing something obvious I've gone back to 1066 to find England as a self contained entity rather than a wider state of which it was the largest part. If I'm right I'm sure that impacts our sense of self, there being no need for a separate identity beyond that of the wider state.

Linear said:
I used to be proud of my nationality, not so much nowadays.
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Me too, I've long fallen out of love with us. I'm sure I recall at least a little irony in our smug anti-intellectualism, not now.
 
To me we often only realise our Englishness when surrounded by different cultures. I’ve worked internationally a lot of my life and became aware of our reserved nature, diplomacy or lack of directness or bluntness. With a Colombian wife and Italian teenager in the house I’m even more aware of our reserved nature but most amusingly that when we wave our arms around it’s done purposefully and economically and for emphasi, not maniacally, lol. Oh, and we don’t like people invading our personal space, or dancing with our women, or being loud, not in comparison anyway.

Also the English dance vertically bobbing up and down whereas for others it’s all in the hips without looking like dad dancing, or mum dancing.
 
Are we talking about ethnicity, nationality or language? The only thing English about me is my first language, mastery of which I'm proud.
 
Grew up in Leeds. Lived in France and Germany. Now live in Herefordshire. Don't think of myself as English at all. Yorkshire first, then European, then British, which is very different thing from English. When I was a kid, the only place you would see the flag of St. George was on a church, and quite rightly so.
 
I was born in England, but now live in Wales. I'm bilingual, English/Welsh. My DNA is a mixture of Irish, Scottish, Welsh, and English. I think of myself as British or Celtic, but not English.
 
Can't really help as although I've spent 99% of my life in England I'm 'British' having been born elsewhere and 'naturalised' when brought into the country as a baby. I guess I grew up feeling more English than anything else but in the last couple of decades that has withered away and now feel ok to be simply British, but even then only on account of my mother having completed the recommended paperwork back in the day 🙂
 
I'm quite the opposite to most here when being referred to as British. I clarify that I am English. I feel even less connected to Scotland, Ireland and Wales than I do England.
 
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