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What does it mean to you to be English?

tones said:
Spot on - the modern nation state, with a silly bit of coloured rag to salute and a silly song to sing, developed slowly, but really came to full fruition in the the Thirty Years' War. I personally find it bizarre that particular characteristics are attributed to what amount to administrative divisions on a map. It really handicaps us when we face global-wide problems that need global-wide solutions, such as climate change, loss of natural habitat, overutilisation of natural resources and, of course (and very topically) people seeking a better life elsewhere.

Instead, we have trumped (if you'll pardon the expression)-up little would-be tsars trying to resurrect long-lost and largely imaginary glories by blowing up the administrative division next door, nasty little men trying to make good on a divine promise allegely made to a distant ancestor in the late Bronze Age and silly little men (and women) cutting off their noses to spite their faces in some strange notion of island exceptionalism. Nero would recognise what's happening.

Trouble is, the whole nonsense is so ingrained in the world as a whole that only a complete catastrophe would knock sense into our heads. Nikita Khruschev allegedly said that, when the time came to hang the last capitalist, the capitalist would sell him the rope. I can only hope that we get out of the rope-making business before it's too late.

Personally, I am Irish, but that's because I was born on the island called Ireland, full stop - I attribute no particular aspects to that.
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Brilliant post.
 
The only time I feel any pride in being British (English by association), is when I think of my Grandfather (and to a lesser extent Great Grandfather), who fought in WW2 to save the way of life of ourselves and others. He was one of the lucky ones that survived. Unfortunately I never got to meet him.
 
Kirk said:
No one is an island. We like to feel part of a group, and to belong. Feeling proud of your local community, nation, team, democracy, monarchy, cuisine, church, flag, State, invention, multiculturalism, whatever, is a natural extension of that. It may be not be logical or the done thing philosophically but society needs that sense of belonging and ties that bind it together. The alternative is worse.
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All true of course, but what's wrong with having a feeling of belonging to that wonderful thing that is humanity itself?
 
English?
I was born in England and raised English. Bloodline is a GB/Europe mix, going only back as far as my grandparents.
If asked what I am I'll always respond "English", the same as a Scot would say Scottish etc.
I've lived abroad for nearly the past twenty five years, I have no current desire to return.
England has a rich history and has managed to operate the biggest empire ever, then lose it all, as every other empire has done before.
It has contributed massively to the modern world, as Great Britain even more so, and been a stand out entity that demanded respect from the rest of the world.
Nowadays it's rather a mess without apparent direction and the main export/world contribution seems to be morons behaving badly, while "importing" more and more junk from around the world who are then given more rights than the *indigenous folk, with that I most definitely *include the previous swathes of hard working, law abiding and contributive immigrants that have made England their home, flourished and are abundantly welcome.
I'm basically an immigrant to another part if the world. I try to show the same respect in all aspects of daily life that I would expect and mostly saw/received back in my England life days.

Plenty of holes and maybe even contradictions in my views but at least I try to be honest about.

Proud to be English? It can depend on the day or even the current news!
Will England ever be "Great" again, I doubt it.

BTW, yesterday a few us had a quiet boozey session to celebrate the non-celebrated St. George's Day discussing this very matter.
 
Spraggons Den said:
Unfortunately we can't draw on the brilliance of Ivor Cutler to articulate what it is like to live in England but we do have John Cooper Clarke:

The bloody cops are bloody keen
Bloody keep it bloody clean
Bloody chief's a bloody swine
Bloody draws the bloody line
At bloody fun and bloody games
The bloody kids he bloody blames
Are nowhere to be bloody found
Anywhere in Chickentown
The bloody scene is bloody sad
The bloody news is bloody bad
The bloody weed is bloody turf
The bloody speed is bloody Surf
Bloody folks are bloody daft
Don't make me bloody laugh
Bloody hurts to look around
Everywhere in Chickentown
The bloody train is bloody late
You bloody wait, you bloody wait
You're bloody lost and bloody found
Stuck in ****ing Chickentown
The bloody view is bloody vile
For bloody miles and bloody miles
Bloody babies bloody cry
Bloody flowers bloody die
Bloody food is bloody muck
Bloody drains are bloody ****ed
Colour scheme is bloody brown
Evidently Chickentown
The bloody pubs are bloody dull
The bloody clubs are bloody full
Of bloody girls and bloody guys
With bloody murder in their eyes
A bloody bloke got bloody stabbed
Waiting for a bloody cab
Bloody stay at bloody home
Bloody neighbor bloody moans
Keep the bloody racket down
This is bloody Chickentown
The bloody pies are bloody old
The bloody chips are bloody cold
Bloody beer is bloody flat
The bloody flats have bloody rats
The bloody clocks are bloody wrong
Bloody days are bloody long
Bloody gets you bloody down
It's evidently Chickentown
The bloody train is bloody late
You bloody wait and bloody wait
Bloody lost and bloody found
Stuck in ****ing Chickentown
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Is there some Australian in this guy's background? The only thing he doesn't do is conjugate the word in the Australian fashion:

"Where ya bloody been, ya drongo? 'Aven't seen yer for a week!
An' yer mate's been lookin' for you, since 'e came back from the creek,
'E's been up at bloody Ryan's an' around at bloody Joe's
An' even at the Royal where 'e bloody never goes!"
An' the other bloke said, "Saw 'im, owed 'im arf a bloody quid
I hadn't bloody paid 'im back, well, now I bloody did
Coulda used the thing me-bloody-self, been orf the bloody booze
Up at Tumba-bloody-rumba, shootin' kanga-bloody-roos"
 
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gez said:
With the exception of drinking culture and monarchy, the same attitudes can be found amongst a percentage of cititizens of every country on the planet. I don't agree or believe that those attitudes define the English (or British) any more than they define the Spanish, Irish, French, Germans etc.
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That's what Englishness means to me. You're obviously allowed your own opinion. I associate Englishess with yobs, racism, fierce nationalism and the far right and I'm always suspicious of the motives of anyone declaring themselves to be English over all else.
 
Interesting though comprehensible why the concept of national pride is unfashionable these days. To me, it seems more indicative of a failed entity largely disinterested in the citizen. Also, the associations with grandstanding and chest puffing make nationalism distasteful, perhaps...

That said, I can't help put feel a certain myopia on the part of those with so little regard for the nationhood or identity. There's good with the bad...consider England's hifi and engineering/ manufacturing excellence of the past. The pieces of gear we love. Could it have happened anywhere? Maybe, maybe not.

For me, being Irish, yes it's notional, but I feel some spiritual connection to the land and place itself. A fanciful inclination for most probably. I suppose it's a deep appreciation for those that went before, in whatever permutation they co-existed. In amongst the horrors, there's stories of endurance and survival and co-operation.

Supra-nationalism seems lonelier than anything to me.
 
I would like to comment on this but would be accused of being racist
The days of freedom of speach are LOOOOOONG gone.
 
I always used to say I'm English or British.
Now I usually say I'm a New Zealander if asked. Sums it up.
And yes I have both passports.
 
gez said:
Is that not, in and of itself something to be lauded?
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I think so. What also springs to mind is all the illustrious foreigners who were assimilated into English culture; Vladimir Nabokov, Alfred Brendel, Georg Mikes, Isaiah Berlin, Yehudi Menuhin, Leslie Howard spring to mind, but there have been many.
Other nations have not been so open to outsiders.
 
I don't understand the tribalism, we are supposed to be civilized.
I was born on this part of our big rock, I am accepting of our temperate climate, I feel no special allegiance to any tribe other than its a lot easier if my neighbor speaks English because like so many English, I am too ignorant or lazy to learn another language fluently.
I don't mean to be deprecating about the English, I just don't see why it matters beyond simple practicalities.
We have so much in common with everyone else on this rock , we are all just people trying to get by.
 
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