USB Cable Poll: Redux

[Mescalito]

You missed the point again: why are you fearful of uncertainty? What's the connection?

I do not fear uncertainty. In fact I welcome it. Uncertainty implies there is something new to discover.

But I despise and abhor people who peddle uncertainty about things we are simply not uncertain about. Like the safety of the MMR vaccine, or the Apollo monn landings.

There are no fairies at the bottom of the garden. Any properly specified & manufactured USB cable will perform exactly the same as any other.

Chris

 

[ItemAudio]

There are no fairies at the bottom of the garden. Any properly specified & manufactured USB cable will perform exactly the same as any other.

Chris

Not in my experience. And not according to many. But good luck with the binary world view - and better luck telling the experts they're stupid or crooked, and everyone else they're crazy.

I'm not telling anyone what to think - in fact, here I'm only asking.

I would be really cross about a USB cable that claimed to transform your system. I'm similarly suspicious of a DAC or amplifier that claims to be immune to its environment - because in the real world, that rarely tends to happen. I'm wary of superlative claims. You'll notice none are being made in this thread.

Personally, I voted A. When asked: “Do you think USB cables make a difference?” I say: “Yeh - a bit. Perhaps more than I'd expected.”

 

[Mescalito]

Not in my experience. And not according to many. But good luck with the binary world view - and better luck telling the experts they're stupid or crooked, and everyone else they're crazy.

I'm not telling anyone what to think - in fact, here I'm only asking.

Wrong. You are actively promoting a world view which is a benign environment for you to peddle your overpriced and useless foo in.

Chris

 

[ItemAudio]

You're seeing conspiracies where there are none: it's just a poll asking what people have found useful. It's not changing opinions. It's of no use to anyone - it's just interesting.

 

[Mescalito]

You're seeing conspiracies where there are none.

There's absolutely nothing conspiratorial about your attempts to promote foo. The are completely obvious & brazen.

Chris

 

[Julf]

Again, we're up against the vexed definition of audibility - audible to whom, and in what context? You'll need to fight much harder to claim a generalisation about 'impossibility'.

I am not interested in any claims about impossibility. I am more than happy to settle for "less likely than for a non-corrupt politician, talented boy-band member and honest audiophile merchant to be hit by a falling 747 at the same exact moment".

I'm only arguing for reasonable doubt.

Glad you are backing off from "high probability". All I can say is "keep going!"

 

[whatsnext]

You'll note that we're still waiting on substantiation of merlin's accusation of evasion or duplicity . . .

To be honest, I don't care whether people vote A or B - at least they've had a go. And of group A, any vested interest for us is vanishing-to-non-existent - again, follow the money...

But it's that complacent 40% group C that gets my goat.

and I am still waiting for you to say what is in the construction of your or anyone elses £100+ cables that make them sound different to/better than the sub £100 where I hear no difference. So please do not overdo the Merlin attack.

I hope you goat recovers it's health. But don't construe too much from the poll with 116 voters - indifference rules the day.

 

[avole]

The goat is deliberately misleading about that 40%. If you happen to be someone who fully understands the domain, where else can you vote? No-one who understands digital is ever going to audition a cable, what would be the point?

The poll cannot allow for knowledge, that would not serve the poll meister's purposes.

 

[ItemAudio]

I stand by USB cables because - when they can improve systems and make profit - it would be ridiculous not to. Selling amplifiers is absolutely no different.

Why not ask all the other dealers in the UK - and Maplins - why they sell audio USB cables?

 

[Mescalito]

I stand by USB cables because - when they can improve systems and make profit - it would be ridiculous not to. Selling amplifiers is absolutely no different.

Why not ask all the other dealers in the UK - and Maplins - why they sell audio USB cables?

I too stand by USB cables. They do what they are supposed to do. A Maplins £5.00 special as well as a FooPhile £600 pound special.

And I have no problem with you or anyone else selling a FooPhile £600 pound special. My problems start when you claim superior performance for it.

Chris

 

[ItemAudio]

and I am still waiting for you to say what is in the construction of your or anyone elses £100+ cables that make them sound different to/better than the sub £100 where I hear no difference. So please do not overdo the Merlin attack.

I hope you goat recovers it's health. But don't construe too much from the poll with 116 voters - indifference rules the day.

I'm still waiting for merlin to dredge from the archives the question about MacBooks to which he imputed some dark motive for my failure to answer . . .

We did touch on this earlier in the thread: for instance, KingRex' uArt and uCraft DC cables are silver-plated OCC wire with multiple layers of screening and power isolation, bespoke damped aluminium connectors and cryo-treated. The construction is dual-conduit: a Y-cable with two A connectors and one B connector, designed to allow injection of 5V from a battery or power supply. It goes without saying that it's USB 2.0 compliant.

In other words, it's materially very different to a peripheral lead. It takes about three hours to make.

Wireworld's USB cables have a six-conductor geometry with a coaxial power line and 'DNA Helix' twisted pair data cables for USB 2.0, and a 12-conductor layout for USB 3.0.

Again, they are materially different - and both claim measurably lower jitter.

 

[ItemAudio]

I too stand by USB cables. They do what they are supposed to do. A Maplins £5.00 special as well as a FooPhile £600 pound special.

And I have no problem with you or anyone else selling a FooPhile £600 pound special. My problems start when you claim superior performance for it.

Chris

We've already dealt with this: yes, cables are expensive. Sorry about that: buy them second hand.

They do inherently differ in terms of specification and performance. The degree to which that matters is open to debate - hence the poll.

 

[Mescalito]

I'm still waiting for merlin to dredge from the archives the question about MacBooks to which he imputed some dark motive for my failure to answer . . .

We did touch on this earlier in the thread: for instance, KingRex' uArt and uCraft DC cables are silver-plated OCC wire with multiple layers of screening and power isolation, bespoke damped aluminium connectors and cryo-treated. The construction is dual-conduit: a Y-cable with two A connectors and one B connector, designed to allow injection of 5V from a battery or power supply. It goes without saying that it's USB 2.0 compliant.

In other words, it's materially very different to a peripheral lead. It takes about three hours to make.

Wireworld's USB cables have a six-conductor geometry with a coaxial power line and 'DNA Helix' twisted pair data cables for USB 2.0, and a 12-conductor layout for USB 3.0.

Again, they are materially different - and both claim measurably lower jitter.

Eff me, that's really gotta be much more better than a Maplins bog standard cable!!

Oh, but of course, it isn't. The only salient point is that it is USB 2 compliant. Just like the Maplins one. That means it will be just as good as the Maplins one when iit comes to transmiting a digital stream.

And just how can a cable effect jitter? It can't of course.

Chris

 

[rich46]

if guys buy additional psu for 3000 plus surely they will think there will be differences in usb. but I still paid £20 for a usb cable that mechanical is a better fit etc

 

[ItemAudio]

And just how can a cable effect jitter? It can't of course.

Chris

Asking that question is a bit of a giveaway. Just stick to “I can't hear a difference”. No-one can argue with that.

 

[Joe P]

Chaps,

You're almost there.

I calculate that after another hundred or so pages of posting exactly the same thing you've been posting in this thread and others so similar that it's impossible to distinguish between them that the sheer tour de force of your argument will cause your opponent to recant his position and concede yours.

The important thing is to never give up. No one likes a quitter.

Joe

 

[Mescalito]

Asking that question is a bit of a giveaway. Just stick to “I can't hear a difference”. No-one can argue with that.

So enlighten me. How can an etirely passive component which meets the USB 2 standard, either decrease or increase jitter?.

Chris

 

[WAD62]

I think there's quite a bit of oversimplification occurring here...IMHO

For me it's not a question of whether a cheap USB will transfer data as well as an expensive one, when it comes to data transfer any functional USB cable is perfectly sufficient...

At one end lies a USB streaming source, with a better or worse isolated USB socket, and likewise a destination USB DAC with potentially the same issues.

Are all USB streamers built the same? No, and likewise USB DACs

I can get a 'benchmarked' bit perfect data stream into my MDAC via any cheap USB cable from my SBTouch, however with alternative components in the USB path my sound quality is noticeably improved.

I can only speculate as to the improvement being due to secondary effects other than data accuracy...RF interfering with the DAC perhaps? Out of my knowledge sphere I'm afraid.

I can also accept that devices other than an SBTouch, and an MDAC may have better isolation already built in, and would not benefit from improved 'decoupling'.

I think it very much depends on one's setup, as to whether there's anything to gain from 'improving' the USB path, and I don't think the answer is as simple as a 'cable'...

 

[WAD62]

I think there's quite a bit of oversimplification occurring here...IMHO

For me it's not a question of whether a cheap USB will transfer data as well as an expensive one, when it comes to data transfer any functional USB cable is perfectly sufficient...

At one end lies a USB streaming source, with a better or worse isolated USB socket, and likewise a destination USB DAC with potentially the same issues.

Are all USB streamers built the same? No, and likewise USB DACs

I can get a 'benchmarked' bit perfect data stream into my MDAC via any cheap USB cable from my SBTouch, however with alternative components in the USB path my sound quality is noticeably improved.

I can only speculate as to the improvement being due to secondary effects other than data accuracy...RF interfering with the DAC perhaps? Out of my knowledge sphere I'm afraid.

I can also accept that devices other than an SBTouch, and an MDAC may have better isolation already built in, and would not benefit from improved 'decoupling'.

I think it very much depends on one's setup, as to whether there's anything to gain from 'improving' the USB path, and I don't think the answer is as simple as a 'cable'...

 

[merlin]

This is a cunning mix of smear and outright lie . . . I'm literally in the business of demonstrating audibility. And I've deliberately dodged no questions about MBPro wiring, or made extravagant claims - please substantiate or desist . . .

See HERE for starters Item.

On all of your other FUD missions you have repeatedly been asked to demonstrate the audibility of your claims with a simple controlled test.

I have offered to host this in previous threads and do so again.

Every time you have dodged the issue.

Sorry but them's the facts.