Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
OP, I presume you didn’t have or use the original packaging for the TT?
UPS Warning - Don’t Bother!!!!
- Thread starter Weeman1973
- Start date
simon g
Older, wiser but no longer retired
The trouble with this type of post is that:
a) It's only one side of a story
b) You never see posts started stating how well a courier has performed.
Given the very high number of parcels being processed by UPS, or whomever, I suspect that it's a tiny percentage that is problematic. There is a perception that it's higher due to b) above
For balance: I've used UPS extensively over many, many years and never had a damage problem. I also find DPD very good.
Whenever packing; always use manufacturer's packaging and maybe more. Assume it will be dropped on to a hard surface at 1m and pack accordingly. Photograph all stages of packaging.
If the OP is absolutely sure of their case then I suggest a small claims court action. Easy to initiate. I've had two bad experiences with PF, one of which they refused to pay. I made a court claim, PF didn't attend, judgement to me for claim plus costs. PF paid within 7 days.
As I say, if the OP feels strongly about this, then off to Court. 7 day warning letter to registered office first, cc the CEO.
a) It's only one side of a story
b) You never see posts started stating how well a courier has performed.
Given the very high number of parcels being processed by UPS, or whomever, I suspect that it's a tiny percentage that is problematic. There is a perception that it's higher due to b) above
For balance: I've used UPS extensively over many, many years and never had a damage problem. I also find DPD very good.
Whenever packing; always use manufacturer's packaging and maybe more. Assume it will be dropped on to a hard surface at 1m and pack accordingly. Photograph all stages of packaging.
If the OP is absolutely sure of their case then I suggest a small claims court action. Easy to initiate. I've had two bad experiences with PF, one of which they refused to pay. I made a court claim, PF didn't attend, judgement to me for claim plus costs. PF paid within 7 days.
As I say, if the OP feels strongly about this, then off to Court. 7 day warning letter to registered office first, cc the CEO.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
^^^^ this
mikemusic
pfm Member
I learned from running a print company that packing is an essential part of the product.
Visiting Sharp in Manchester I saw one of our printed manual deliveries wrecked beyond comprehension. Boxes in tatters.
They put up with it for years to my amazement.
Packing for overnight took a massive step up after that.
Good quality boxes, no airspace so no movement and wreckage. Packing tape on any openings and all edges.
If anyone asked the test for packing was to drop the box from the factory mezzanine floor onto concrete. Honest.
Visiting Sharp in Manchester I saw one of our printed manual deliveries wrecked beyond comprehension. Boxes in tatters.
They put up with it for years to my amazement.
Packing for overnight took a massive step up after that.
Good quality boxes, no airspace so no movement and wreckage. Packing tape on any openings and all edges.
If anyone asked the test for packing was to drop the box from the factory mezzanine floor onto concrete. Honest.
Minio
Kind of Sort of Not really...
I've used UPS dozens of times successfully, but for me it's a lottery using some of the couriers out there.
I wouldn't fancy making a claim. With so many eventualities the carriers seem to have covered themselves with small print.
If they lose something completely then they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Other than that just try to pack in bullet proof fashion and try and keep the nerves steady!
I wouldn't fancy making a claim. With so many eventualities the carriers seem to have covered themselves with small print.
If they lose something completely then they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Other than that just try to pack in bullet proof fashion and try and keep the nerves steady!
jan tomczak
pfm Member
think it is a numbers game...the good as in when the delivery driver actually brought my amp to my door on a sack barrow (ups). the bad as in my speakers purchased from the usa came with the box damaged...must have been thrown real hard as one of the speakers had a small chink of paint knocked of the rear of the speaker about the size of a 5p piece. (the damaged speaker works fine).
the speaker manufacturer sent me a replacement and delivered with no issues...ups both times. but regarding insurance for the manufacturer, whoever was responsible, they all blamed someone else for the damage and didn't pay up and in the end i got to keep the damaged speaker as it was not viable to get it back to the usa for the manufacturer.
the speaker manufacturer sent me a replacement and delivered with no issues...ups both times. but regarding insurance for the manufacturer, whoever was responsible, they all blamed someone else for the damage and didn't pay up and in the end i got to keep the damaged speaker as it was not viable to get it back to the usa for the manufacturer.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
I have had problems with U.P.S. but as the receiver. My two monoblocs were due back from E.A.R. in a b/h holiday Friday but U.P.S. used a twat in a white van whose satnav was out of date by well over a decade. He tried to deliver to another address (which had been a satnav/Google error before). Four days later he found me and delivered a very dishevelled outer box (30 kg incl.?) which had been ripped and bashed in on every facet of the box.
Via a load of hassle and frustration with U.P.S., the manufacturer secured the cost of the box (£51+ would you believe?) in compensation. Lost out on the V.A.T. element but am satisfied at having succeeded in pursuing such an example of negligence, idiocy and lack of care.
Having said the above, I have found, as have others, U.P.S. to be okay when they're using their liveried vans.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
EAR Yoshino use UPS. On one occasion I got my amps back not working. When I looked through the cage I could see the anode caps were off and the output valves hanging out of their sockets despite the anode caps being braced against the top of the cage with a blob of compliant sealant. The only plausible explanation is that the boxes had been thrown or dropped from a considerable height. Fortunately there was no physical damage.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Weeman, this is a ghastly story and you have my sympathy- Id be hopping mad. I once sent a phono stage insured via one parcel company only to read the small print exclusion that HiFi isn’t covered. Let’s face it- your experience wasn’t due to an act of god or the van having a collision with a train- it’s simple negligence or wilful damage. The law should be tightened to ensure they are liable for negligence. Can you say what was the nature of the damage to the TT or post a pic of you can?
Weeman1973
Big Country Member
Cheers all - appreciate the comments & feedback.
Hugh - the damage isn’t substantial, broken dust cover & Chips, dents etc to the plinth (Piano Gloss Black shows anything though..)
Now it’s with me, the motor suspension belt is broke & the platter mat, anti skate weight & feet shock absorbers are missing.
The photos from the receiver, showing me the original damage clearly shows the motor in place with the belt intact, the platter mat & anti skate weight all there etc so the extra damage & missing parts has happened since UPS had it to investigate & subsequently send it back to me but they conveniently have failed to acknowledge this in any correspondence.
I’ve done what I can with it & ordered the missing / damaged parts from Henley (it was a Pro-Ject deck) so once I have everything fixed up, the only real remaining problems will be the dents & marks to plinth - the arm & everything else are fine.
I might keep it once fixed & put it down to life experience - never use UPS again, including in my work capacity so it will end up costing them more than the price of fixing up my TT in the end.
Hugh - the damage isn’t substantial, broken dust cover & Chips, dents etc to the plinth (Piano Gloss Black shows anything though..)
Now it’s with me, the motor suspension belt is broke & the platter mat, anti skate weight & feet shock absorbers are missing.
The photos from the receiver, showing me the original damage clearly shows the motor in place with the belt intact, the platter mat & anti skate weight all there etc so the extra damage & missing parts has happened since UPS had it to investigate & subsequently send it back to me but they conveniently have failed to acknowledge this in any correspondence.
I’ve done what I can with it & ordered the missing / damaged parts from Henley (it was a Pro-Ject deck) so once I have everything fixed up, the only real remaining problems will be the dents & marks to plinth - the arm & everything else are fine.
I might keep it once fixed & put it down to life experience - never use UPS again, including in my work capacity so it will end up costing them more than the price of fixing up my TT in the end.
Tim Jones
pfm Member
I've couriered four or five items (the most recent being a Fender Jazz Bass three days ago) with UPS and have never had a problem. My suspicion is it's less the company, and more someone who works for them behaving like a dick that causes problems. And dicks can turn up anywhere....
The Chronicals
Disruptor
Theres little point saying which courier is better, which is worse, sending anything is Russian Roulette, generally DHL (which now own and operate UK Mail as DHL Local), DPD and UPS are the better ones, with the likes of Hermes and Yodel being the ones to only send something of worthless value with. I tend to pack parcels so that I feel I could drop them out of my fourth storey window and they will bounce/survive. Double and triple boxing anything of value is mandatory.
I have had a couple of problems before, and yes one was UPS for a Project RPM5 turntable, and after a small claims court mention and a couple of good letters and photographs, twitter and facebook posts on their pages, they paid out after claiming they wouldn't and it was my fault due to poor packaging (full factory packaging with a second box and filled to the brim with bubblewrap internal and then external). Two where with Hermes who paid out with no argument, but they have in the last year tightened up their compensation pay outs I;ve noticed.
Most couriers wont insure, or insure to low amounts Hifi Equipment, but I now use Overland Express, just a third party booker like Parcel2Go but as of last time I used them for floorstanding speakers, have a specific insurance policy for Hifi gear up to the value of 3K, so theres some solace in that.
Keep on at UPS, and also if you paid by Credit Card, speak to them about the charged amount, although its below Section 75 claim level, they may feel they can put a chargeback claim in for it. I had my delivery charge recovered this way.
I have had a couple of problems before, and yes one was UPS for a Project RPM5 turntable, and after a small claims court mention and a couple of good letters and photographs, twitter and facebook posts on their pages, they paid out after claiming they wouldn't and it was my fault due to poor packaging (full factory packaging with a second box and filled to the brim with bubblewrap internal and then external). Two where with Hermes who paid out with no argument, but they have in the last year tightened up their compensation pay outs I;ve noticed.
Most couriers wont insure, or insure to low amounts Hifi Equipment, but I now use Overland Express, just a third party booker like Parcel2Go but as of last time I used them for floorstanding speakers, have a specific insurance policy for Hifi gear up to the value of 3K, so theres some solace in that.
Keep on at UPS, and also if you paid by Credit Card, speak to them about the charged amount, although its below Section 75 claim level, they may feel they can put a chargeback claim in for it. I had my delivery charge recovered this way.
I have to say that I do not recall any courier actually damaging anything, ever, and I buy a hell of a lot of stuff mail order.
If the OP has real proof that the only fault lies with UPS then a claim through Small Claims should be a breeze - in such cases the defendant (i.e. a large company) will generally not defend the case and either pay-up out of Court or just accept the loss of the case and judgement (a CCJ) against them, and then pay-up. (Been there, done that, a few times now.)
The idea that a credit card will look more favourably on a claim seems to be wishful thinking - why on earth would they if, in this case UPS, say that they are not at fault? Nothing ventured, nothing gained though.
I sent my Urei speakers to France via UPS - 37kg a piece in plywood crates - about 4 weeks ago. The buyer was better than well chuffed.
If the OP has real proof that the only fault lies with UPS then a claim through Small Claims should be a breeze - in such cases the defendant (i.e. a large company) will generally not defend the case and either pay-up out of Court or just accept the loss of the case and judgement (a CCJ) against them, and then pay-up. (Been there, done that, a few times now.)
The idea that a credit card will look more favourably on a claim seems to be wishful thinking - why on earth would they if, in this case UPS, say that they are not at fault? Nothing ventured, nothing gained though.
I sent my Urei speakers to France via UPS - 37kg a piece in plywood crates - about 4 weeks ago. The buyer was better than well chuffed.
Andrew C!
Been around a while....
As a sender, I've recently used Parcel Force Worldwide for several items - I think about 9 separate occasions, with various size boxes valued between £50 and £2500. Those items, including Naim kit, have been received with no issues by the individual buyers. All insured for purchased amount.
As a receiver of goods recently, I got one item from parcel Force but by what was clearly a subcontracted delivery driver. Box damaged and item inside damaged, and subsequently replaced by the seller. I can't pin down the driver tho, as obviously I didn't see when the item was specifically damaged. I took photos of the item on delivery, in the presence of the driver - he was rather bemused at this but understood my reasons. Photos sent to seller as evidence.
As a receiver of goods recently, I got one item from parcel Force but by what was clearly a subcontracted delivery driver. Box damaged and item inside damaged, and subsequently replaced by the seller. I can't pin down the driver tho, as obviously I didn't see when the item was specifically damaged. I took photos of the item on delivery, in the presence of the driver - he was rather bemused at this but understood my reasons. Photos sent to seller as evidence.
graystoke4
pfm Member
too right , rockmeister, ,,people don't forget these boxes get tip't out of o lorry on to many convener belts down shoots onto more belts onto Moore belts and then man handled you have to let them know what they are taking wrap it in the proper tape ,,glass do not drop , fragile take photos when you drop it off this is a must take a photo of the guy that takes it , i know this sounds overboard but it will stop threads like this cumming up, and bombproof the rapping
cctaylor
pfm Member
It's all down to the staff. Last year I had bike shipped to me by DX. It was in an unbranded box.
When it arrived the delivery driver pointed out the damage to the box. He waited while I opened the box and checked it. It didn't take long to open it as someone had already forced the box open. My guess is that somewhere in the journey from the Midlands to the North of Scotland some toe rag had opened the box to see if it was worth nicking!
I would have loved to have seen their face when they found 23kg of Elephant Bike, rather than anything more desirable!
Sending parcels is bit pot luck I'm afraid, it only takes one lazy or careless employee for it all to go wrong. The courier companies operate on small margins, staff on low wages are driven by targets and have no connection with the sender or receiver of the goods in transit.
When it arrived the delivery driver pointed out the damage to the box. He waited while I opened the box and checked it. It didn't take long to open it as someone had already forced the box open. My guess is that somewhere in the journey from the Midlands to the North of Scotland some toe rag had opened the box to see if it was worth nicking!
I would have loved to have seen their face when they found 23kg of Elephant Bike, rather than anything more desirable!
Sending parcels is bit pot luck I'm afraid, it only takes one lazy or careless employee for it all to go wrong. The courier companies operate on small margins, staff on low wages are driven by targets and have no connection with the sender or receiver of the goods in transit.
graystoke4
pfm Member
23kg of elephant tusk
zippy
pfm Member
You have to expect that the boxes are going to be thrown about a fair bit. Probably at the depot, but I'v often see couriers throw boxes around the van when trying to find my parcel.
I wouldn't send anything valuable unless I thought it was packed securely enough to stand that kind of treatment.
For my money, DPD is still the best overall.
Worst for me is actually Royal Mail, who have completely lost 2 of my packages in recent times.
I wouldn't send anything valuable unless I thought it was packed securely enough to stand that kind of treatment.
For my money, DPD is still the best overall.
Worst for me is actually Royal Mail, who have completely lost 2 of my packages in recent times.