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Upgraded Ittok LVII vs Ekos 2

I think comparing a TT to an older CDP is somewhat pointless given the improvements that can be had via a new DAC relative to its likely price.

A more interesting question might be how well your TT compared to a Rega Isis, and in turn how the Isis might compare to a newer inexpensive DAC.
 
Comparing any record replay system to any CD replay system, or streamer, is a bit like comparing horse racing to the dogs, or to human sprints - they are so totally different experiences even before getting as far as playing any music.

Sorry to repeat, but my enjoyment of listening to music comes in 20 minute chunks, roughly, with a short pause after and includes flipping a record (or not) during the pause.
 
I run a melco into a D33 which is completely trounced by my record player. A digital source that gets anywhere near it would be a very expensive proposition indeed.
 
Perhaps I should have said "older tech" since the Saturn R was released in 2015. That's actually almost an eternity ago now in terms of digital evolution.
 
david ellwood said:
I run a melco into a D33 which is completely trounced by my record player. A digital source that gets anywhere near it would be a very expensive proposition indeed.
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Maybe if Linn made it!

Topping - maybe not so much.

I presume by D33 you actually mean the Arcam FMJ D33. Really is "yeterday's" product.
 
retseldrib said:
Thanks for all the replies - given that the bearings used to upgrade the Ittok are now polished to higher degree the question is will that now surpass the bearings of the Ekos. The question is not an Ekos 2 against a standard Ittok.
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Well, the harshness of the Ittok originated in the arm-tube, not the bearings. There were several after-market mods to the tube to mitigate this. I think the standard bearings in the Ittok were just fine, provided they hadn't been damage by abuse or carelessness.
 
david ellwood said:
The differences between the Ekos and the Ittok are fundamental to the construction materials , The ittok LV3 MK2 is a massive improvement on the LV2 but its still a long way behind an Ekos.

I suppose its down to value for money , how much is it going to cost to send your arm away for the rewire and bearing upgrade?

I personally doubt it turns the Ittok into a dramatically different arm, and given its going to be a punt, there is a risk that you spend big on work that makes little difference , or potentially makes the arm worse.
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Thanks for this. I thought that the fundamental difference between the Ekos 2 and Ittok LVII was the bearings but you are saying that there other significant differences affecting the performance of both arms then.

The full upgrade is around £375
 
sktn77a said:
Well, the harshness of the Ittok originated in the arm-tube, not the bearings. There were several after-market mods to the tube to mitigate this. I think the standard bearings in the Ittok were just fine, provided they hadn't been damage by abuse or carelessness.
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Just read this as I answered Davids post. I didn’t realise this although not overly sure what you mean by the harshness of the Ittok - do you mean an attacking type characteristics - I notice this with drums which sounds good to me but I’ve only ever heard an Ittok
 
My two pen'orth...
If you can find an Ittok LVIII Mk2..i.e. the last iteration of the Ittok, with integrated armrest etc.. that hasn't been destroyed by some moron obsessed with overtightening everything..it's a better arm than the LVIII with the resonant armrest stuck on the armboard.
 
I wouldn’t describe an ittok as harsh, but by comparison to an ekos it sounds a bit splashy and unrefined. The big differences are the bass and timing.
 
retseldrib said:
Just read this as I answered Davids post. I didn’t realise this although not overly sure what you mean by the harshness of the Ittok - do you mean an attacking type characteristics - I notice this with drums which sounds good to me but I’ve only ever heard an Ittok
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That's the problem with the coloration on the Ittok, it makes certain things sound better. So percussion, saxophone etc and very clean recordings like a lot of jazz sound great. It's easy to overestimate how good the arm is and blame the times it sounds poor on bad recordings. A more neutral arm might not sound as good on the 'Ittok-approved' records but might be better overall. I'd take a Rega RB330 over an Ittok, not kidding.

I think upgrading the Ittok is a perfectly viable way to go and will make even more sense as other parts of the deck are upgraded. Most upgrades, like sub-chassis etc, clean the sound up and that's exactly what the Ittok needs. It's still an old arm though so you've got liabilities like the tracking weight spring which could cause you problems in the future. Very few people can fix the arm these days and the only parts available are scavenged off other old arms. hardly ideal.

For what you could get for the Ittok plus the cost of the upgrades, RB2000. Lifetime warranty and sounds better. Doesn't look better in my opinion but if you can get over that and the fact it doesn't say Linn on it ...
 
Mr Pig said:
That's the problem with the coloration on the Ittok, it makes certain things sound better. So percussion, saxophone etc and very clean recordings like a lot of jazz sound great. It's easy to overestimate how good the arm is and blame the times it sounds poor on bad recordings. A more neutral arm might not sound as good on the 'Ittok-approved' records but might be better overall. I'd take a Rega RB330 over an Ittok, not kidding.

I think upgrading the Ittok is a perfectly viable way to go and will make even more sense as other parts of the deck are upgraded. Most upgrades, like sub-chassis etc, clean the sound up and that's exactly what the Ittok needs. It's still an old arm though so you've got liabilities like the tracking weight spring which could cause you problems in the future. Very few people can fix the arm these days and the only parts available are scavenged off other old arms. hardly ideal.

For what you could get for the Ittok plus the cost of the upgrades, RB2000. Lifetime warranty and sounds better. Doesn't look better in my opinion but if you can get over that and the fact it doesn't say Linn on it ...
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You have mentioned the RB2000 a number of times but did it not involve changing the subchasis on the LP12? It wasn’t a straightforward case of saying please put a RB2000 on my LP12 if I remember correctly?
 
Ittok LVIII is far better in all aspects than an LVII, your wasting money and effort to improve an LVII, which you won't get back if you sell on in the future.

LVIII Mk2 is almost at Ekos 1 performance wise but is far better looking.

Having used all the Linn arms except a Black Ittok, each new arm has been an significant improvment on the last.

Go for an Ekos 2 , or save up a bit longer and get an early Ekos SE.
 
retseldrib said:
There is not really a good way to test this, David unless someone had an upgraded Ittok.
Given that you know what an Ekos 2 sounds like then an Ittok with upgraded bearings plus a rewire would theoretically sound the same as the Ekos 2?
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Remember you can always rewire an Ekos 2. J7 will do this for £150 (if I remember correctly) which is a bargain in relation to the cost of a s/h Ekos of today. Also, just my two pennies worth I upgraded from a Ekos to a Ekos 2 when Linn offered such an upgrade some years back & it was well worth the effort. It made the the Ekos sound much lighter & weak with less control. To put that into perspective I suspect the Ittok in all it's varaints would sound worse still. Perhaps coming close in it's last incarnation to an Ekos.
 
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